Miller dowels for knock-down M&T joints?

[Phil Stone]

I'm building a sewing/work table for my girlfriend, with three goals: it must be sturdy, decent-looking (but not fine furniture), and able to be disassembled. I thought at first of drawboring the M&T joints, but now think that that's not a very knock-downable joint. Drilling out the drawbored dowels would probably destroy the offset. Now I've been thinking about using Miller dowels, dry, to pin the joints. I'm hoping the stepped design of the Miller dowels will provide enough hold to keep the joints together, but am not so sure about that. Opinions?

[Jim Koepke]

My first consideration would be toward how this will be stored when "knocked down."

Steve Ramsey on Wood Working for Mere Mortals built a craft table into a wall cabinet. It would even be possible to build storage into the doors. His uses hinges and braces.

http://woodworking.formeremortals.ne...op-down-table/

jtk

[Phil Stone]

My first consideration would be toward how this will be stored when "knocked down."

Steve Ramsey on Wood Working for Mere Mortals built a craft table into a wall cabinet. It would even be possible to build storage into the doors. His uses hinges and braces.

http://woodworking.formeremortals.ne...op-down-table/

jtk

Hi Jim,

It is aimed more towards being able to move it (get it out of the room) if necessary. The top is 4' X 8' -- I neglected to mention the size. Here's a jpeg from SketchUp.

sewingtable.jpg

[Phil Stone]

I don't know if it's rude to reply to one's own thread, but the idea of bed bolts just occurred to me. Part of me wants an all-wood solution, and there 30 or so stretcher joints that will need to be knock-down, so the hardware cost might add up. Talk amongst yourselves while I research that.

[kent leben]

have you considered tusk tenons? Not sure how practical it would be if you had thirty of them though.

[Phil Stone]

have you considered tusk tenons? Not sure how practical it would be if you had thirty of them though.

Yes, I did, but then realized that the lumber I had bought and dried wouldn’t allow stretchers longer than 48”!

[Mike Brady]

Miller dowels would add nothing and can only be removed from one side of a through joint. Are those even made any anymore? What about those eliptical metal things that IKEA uses in their stuff? I would do tusk tenons.

[Tony Zaffuto]

I use Miller Dowels frequently, but don't think I would consider them for a knock down joint.

[Phil Stone]

Miller dowels would add nothing and can only be removed from one side of a through joint. Are those even made any anymore? What about those eliptical metal things that IKEA uses in their stuff? I would do tusk tenons.

I was hoping, naively, that Miller dowels would hold themselves in somehow (like a regular pinned joint but with extra grip because of the steps). I guess I didn’t think that through very logically — they could just back themselves out without glue. As far as one-sidedness goes, most of the joints would have access from two sides.

It’s beginning to look like bed bolts are the only viable solution. As I said, my design and amount/length of dried lumber won’t permit tusk tenons.

[Warren Mickley]

I have taken many frames apart that were put together with pinned mortise and tenon. The key is to use tapered pins (which are traditional). You can knock the pins out from the back side, using a small pin and a mallet. You might even leave the pins a little long on the back side, easier to hit out. Because they are tapered, they loosen up quickly when they have moved about 1/2 inch.

[Jim Belair]

It’s beginning to look like bed bolts are the only viable solution. As I said, my design and amount/length of dried lumber won’t permit tusk tenons.

You don't have to buy "bed bolts", just a bolt and a nut in a large hole will work.

[Allan Speers]

I don't know if it's rude to reply to one's own thread, but the idea of bed bolts just occurred to me. Part of me wants an all-wood solution, and there 30 or so stretcher joints that will need to be knock-down, so the hardware cost might add up. Talk amongst yourselves while I research that.

That's what I was thinking.

Any kind of joint that can just be knocked apart would probably not be that safe to use when assembled. Especially not over time, and especially not when supporting a motorized thingy with sharp needles moving about.

[Pat Barry]

Just a thought, not knowing how far you want to take this table 'down'. I would make the three leg assemblies and then use 1/2 lap crossrails (top, middle, bottom) and bolt those crossrails in place at the 1/2 lap joints.

[Max Neu]

What if you made it shorter,would that allow you to turn it sideway's to get through the door?Then you could add a top piece to get back to the finished height.I try to avoid knock down joints as much as possible,unless there is no alternative.

[Phil Stone]

Just a thought, not knowing how far you want to take this table 'down'. I would make the three leg assemblies and then use 1/2 lap crossrails (top, middle, bottom) and bolt those crossrails in place at the 1/2 lap joints.

I *am* thinking of making the leg assemblies solid; the crucial thing is to be able to take apart the stretchers, as you have discerned. I like your idea of half-laps, bolted. I'll think on that.