My First Workbench Build - A Journal

[Eric Schubert]

Got a bit more done tonight.

Started to finish up smoothing my previous board and recalled the iron needed sharpening, so I got that taken care of. The plane cut very nicely after that.

Managed to smooth out another 4x4, though it ended up being a bit frustrating. It must've been the most resinous board of the bunch, because shavings kept sticking along the plane mouth, preventing me from continuing until I scraped them off. Very annoying.

I also managed to hit another nail in the latest board... *sigh* I saw some track marks and realized there was a tiny little sparkling spot near one end of the board. It must have been just below the surface inside of one of the holes, because when I checked the board all I saw were some nail holes. (If you remember from early on (or if you're just joining), it's reclaimed lumber. Nail holes are pretty common on these pieces.) I didn't want to dig out a chunk of the board to pull out a nail fragment, so I used a punch and pounded it down into the middle of the board. It should be safe there, though I did write a note by that hole to remind myself of the nail later on, just in case.

In any case, I ended up having to re-sharpen the iron after that, taking of a good amount of metal to get past the chips.

And by the end, I noticed I have another small chip in the edge of the blade. But, there aren't any nails that I can find. I'm guessing I must have just hit one of the knots a bit hard and it chipped the edge. Oh, well... I'll fix that next session...

On the bright side, I'm making some progress and I feel good that I got in a decent workout tonight.

[Eric Schubert]

Tonight's workbench efforts didn't entail any physical labor. Instead, I decided that I needed to do some research to help me clarify the vision for my bench. Off to the internets I went...

I still want to recreate the 3D model I whipped up for my bench. I think it's close to what I want, in its basic form. But, I need to figure out a few of the minor (or not-so-minor) details, like how to construct the mortise-and-tenon connections at the legs and where to mount my vise(s).

Looking at other benches, it appears that many have used drawbore pegs to hold the base together, and that the tenons on these components only go maybe 2-3" into the mortise. This would help greatly, since it leaves room for the neighboring M&T connections at 90°. So, I'll have two blind mortises at the top and bottom of each leg that are 90° to each other, holding the long and short stretchers. Since I wanted to make my bench able to knock down, I'm thinking I'll drawbore the short stretchers into the base, making smaller rectangular frames at each end that I can move with the legs. The longer stretchers I'll look into using barrel nuts to pull them together with the legs.

I'm still debating having long stretchers underneath the bench top. The upside is that I could use them as clamping surfaces, if I make them flush with the top. The downside is more labor in assembly and they aren't exactly straight. These boards have some twist and bow to them, which makes even getting one long flat face difficult, if not impossible. Maybe I'll look for better replacements to get flat faces...

As for the vise situation, all I own is a quick-release Record-style face vise. I'm not sure I want to use that on the front of the bench, but it would be fine for now. I'm considering putting it on the tail of the bench instead, and then looking into adding a leg vise.

In any case, much to decide... I'll see if I can whip up a new 3D model and post a screenshot to share.

[Robert Hazelwood]

On my bench the stretchers are done similar to how you are thinking; the short stretchers permanently connected to the legs via drawbore, with the long stretchers removable and secured by barrel nuts. This is pretty standard for a roubo style and worked well for me. You can see the process I used in this post: https://roberthazelwoodwoodworking.w...g-up-the-base/

One thing I'm not clear on is how many stretchers you are talking about. For a split top design you'd have two short stretchers (top/bottom) on each side, and one long stretcher each on the front and back. So for each leg you'd have two mortises on the short-side inside face, and one mortise on the long-side inside face. If the top is solid, then you need to omit the upper short stretchers to avoid interfering with the tops movement.

Adding a second set of long stretchers under the top is unusual. Assuming you are making the top at least 3" or so thick, they are structurally unnecessary. They could function as aprons I suppose, enabling you to make the tops thinner if you wanted. While they would offer additional clamping area on the front, they would make it more difficult to clamp things on the top of the bench (which is something I seem to do a lot).

On the vise, I expect most people will urge you to get the leg vise for the front and use the QR as an end vise. But, I ended up using a 10" QR as my front vise and have been very happy with it so far. I did splurge for the BC wagon vise, and it has been great.

[Hasin Haroon]

Lovely work so far Eric. I look forward to following your progress and seeing the final bench. The bench will no doubt be an extension of yourself after all the hand work that is going into it. One of the best things about hand tool woodworking.

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks for the feedback, Robert. The way you describe your setup makes a lot of sense to me. I was debating adding the long stretches underneath the top, as it could be both a help and a hindrance. I think I'll skip them for now. I can always add them later, if I want them.

My main concerns with using the QR vise as a face vise are that it won't work as well for dovetails and it may be harder to work the edges of wider boards as I have less vertical room to set the piece in the vise. How has your experience been with those issues, and how do you have those complications with QR vise?

Hasin, thank you. I'm looking forward to getting everything assembled. Now that I have most of the lumber smoothed and flattened, I suspect (hope) things may progress more quickly.

[David Eisenhauer]

I highly recommend a shop-made Moxon to follow up the bench. The Moxon will probably work dovetails and wider material in general better than the QR face vise will. The QR vise can handle daily basic tasks and the Moxon can be pulled out for other work that most likely does not come up daily. I am lucky in that I have room enough to leave my Moxon set up at a far end of my bench in an unused area (for the most part) and can use it as required. My face vise is set up to handle sawing and small/short/narrow planning tasks.

[Robert Hazelwood]

My QR vise is recessed into the bench, so the front edge of the bench is effectively the rear jaw of the vise. I also added a large wooden pad to the front jaw, extending the clamping area. I can secure most long/wide things to one side of the vise rails- with leather padding it has excellent grip and I don't need to crank it down hard enough to cause issues with racking. If I were going to dovetail a very wide board, I'd put the left side of the board in the right side of the vise, and use an F-clamp or holdfast to secure the right side of the board to the bench leg or the sliding deadman. Basically the same thing you'd have to do with a leg vise.

I haven't had a problem edge jointing yet, but if you are working on 2x12 sized pieces a lot the leg vise definitely has an advantage. I've done up to 8" or so I'd guess...there is about 4-5" from the top edge of the bench to the guide bar. I also edge joint on the benchtop a lot with the plane on its side. If I had to edge plane a 2x12 I can just do the same thing I described for wide board dovetailing-, clamp the left end of the board in the right side of the vise (allowing me to drop the workpiece as low as I need) and support the other end with a clamp/holdfast. Or, if the piece is too long for that, I can use the "back" side of the bench and clamp to the legs. The Roubo design makes this sort of improvisation pretty trivial.

I'm certainly not arguing against the leg vise here, just saying that I haven't regretted the QR so far. QR is much easier/faster to install, although if you mortise the benchtop to recess the rear jaw that gap will narrow.

BTW- one thing to keep in mind as you consider a leg vise is that if you use the BC crisscross mechanism, it will restrict the depth and locations of the stretcher mortises for that leg, due to the inletting required. So you'll want to finalize your vise choice before you cut your stretcher joinery.

Oh, and should you opt for the QR vise up front, remember to consider the vise location when laying out dog holes, if you are laminating a dog strip into your top glue up. I did not think of this, and ended up with one useless dog hole

[Eric Schubert]

David, I ran across a similar idea when doing some research. I really like the idea of a temporary vise that I can clamp to the bench top when I need it. Then I can make room when I don't. Thanks for recommending this. If nothing else, I can try it out before deciding to install something more permanent.

Because I plan to put my bench on mobile casters, I'll have access to all sides when I'm working. If I did want a permanent Moxon later on, I'll have the other side of the bench on which to install it.

Robert, thanks for explaining all of that information. It sounds like going with the QR vise really isn't that big of an issue. But I would still need to consider my tail vise situation.

I like the idea of a wagon vise, but I'd need to cut the slot for it to slide since I already glued up my top. That makes it difficult to install at this point. That's why I'm thinking the QR goes on the tail, as it's easy to install, and I can add dog holes to the jaws.

That then leaves the face vise. So I use a second QR? Or go for something different? I still need to price out another QR, as well as a leg vise. That alone may decide things for me. We'll see. But those are the two options I'm debating over right now.

[Eric Schubert]

Below you'll find a drawing detailing out the dimensions that I want to use for my bench. I spent a little time thinking about a few items, but still have some questions that I'm hoping someone here can help me answer. I'm sure they're not super-critical, but I like to know my plan is solid before I move forward.

• Bench top height was set to match the distance from the floor to the joint where my pinky finger joins my palm, which is 32". This was done according to the advice of Chris Schwarz, and seems to match my experience using a section of office furniture for a temporary bench. That surface was just a little low for my liking, and it was 29" tall. I may leave this just a touch longer, since I can always cut the legs down if I don't like it that tall. Maybe an extra inch or two taller?
• My quick-release vise position: based upon my reading about advice on other threads, I decided it was prudent to install the vise on the outside of the leg and on the left end of my bench so that the jaws are flush with the end of the top slab. Since the vise is 9" wide, I planned to have jaws that extend 1" or so out on either side of the vise. Hence I only left 12" on that end of the bench. Is that wise?
• On the right end of my bench, I left a longer tail extending beyond the leg than on the left side. I noticed this is very common with Roubo-style benches. Why is this? And is 18" of length outside of the leg sufficient?
• For the dovetail/tenon connection between the legs and the top slabs, I'm guessing this is unnecessary, but I want to try it for my own experience. However, should I leave a shoulder on all sides of the tenons? On 2 sides of the tenons? Is the "shoulder" between the tenons sufficient? It sounds like the shoulders help prevent racking, so maybe leaving shoulder on all sides is advisable?
• Will 2" long tenons connecting the stretchers to the legs be sufficient? Or should they be longer? As per the drawing, short stretchers will be drawbored and long stretchers will use barrel nuts for knockdown capability.
• Gap size is set to 2" between slabs. This seems somewhat common. I plan to assemble a tool holder / planing stop insert to slip into that gap, as per the Benchcrafted Roubo design. I would likely use 1/2" outer stock and slightly less than 1" spacers when gluing up this insert so that it can slide in and out without binding, yet still fit without too much slop. According to FWW, a 10" slab of fir (to estimate, I used Balsam Fir in the table) will move 0.0024" per percentage point of moisture change per inch in width if it is flat-sawn and 0.0001" if quarter-sawn. I estimated using 10" in width (roughly 5" on each side on the inside of the lag screws), 5% moisture change, this gives me about 0.12" of movement if flat-sawn and 0.005" if quarter-sawn. Then I'd need to account for the insert, which will likely be made with something like poplar. I think it is fair to assume that 5% change in moisture content is unlikely, so 1/16" to 1/8" of play is sufficient. Those top slab pieces are closer to quarter-sawn, so movement will be fairly minimal. I'll start out making it slip in just less than snug and see how it works out over time.

Okay... I think that's all of my questions/considerations for now. Here's the latest drawing/model showing off my geek side:

[David Eisenhauer]

1. The various bench height "rules" all seemed to work out to within an inch or so for me. I have read that you should pick one method and then build the bench, as your body will adapt to that height or you can make it a couple inches taller if you really can't decide and then cut it down later if you want. Pay attention to the room under the lower stretcher for your feet if you plan on cutting later. I used the measurement from the floor up to the bottom of the palm of my hand with my arm held straight down along my side and my hand bent upwards at 90 deg.

2. As to the face vise location - are you right handed or left handed? what will you primarily use the face vise for? I frequently use my face vise to hold pieces for sawing so I put mine within a few inches of the end of the bench so I could extend pieces out for cut off. Your planned position would work for me as long as there were no plans to put another vise nearby.

3. The typical 18" overhang on the far right end of a bench usually indicates that that bench will have or has a tail vise (or wagon type tail vise) that has a longer amount of travel for the vise-end dog and is built for a right handed operator. I believe that the Benchcrafted tail vise calls for 18-1/2" (?) or something close. If you want to install now, or perhaps later on, some type of tail vise, you should figure out which one it will be so that you leave sufficient room for that brand/model of vise travel.

4. I have nothing of value to add about the tenon/dovetail leg-to-top connection, but agree that typically shoulders all the way around seem to help prevent racking. I have seen some bench plans that only call for shoulders on the two long sides of the tenons that extend up into the top, but cannot explain that. 2" tenon length seems slightly short, but I can't see how they would fail with glue and draw bores. If I did not have someone else's plans to go by, I would have picked 2-1/2", 2-3/4" or so, but 2" should work.

5. I would go for a snug fit now, unless it is dry wintertime when you build it. I do see some slight movement between summer and winter where I live but you can always plane it down some later (unless it wedges in place!)

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, David. Good points in your reply. I'll likely move the lower stretchers up an inch or two, just in case. I really don't want to keep hitting my feet on them.

As for the QR vise... I'm right-handed. My understanding is for RH people the vise goes on the left side of the bench. I have no plans to add another vise in that vicinity.

For the tail vise, I'll look into them to get an idea of what I may do later on. How hard is it to retrofit a wagon vise into a slab later? And are they really better than a standard tail vise?

[Robert Engel]

Eric,,

>In reference to bench height, you are wise to allow room for adjustment. In contrast to Schwarz, Frank Klausz recommends flexing the wrist at right angles and the palm surface will give height. This is what I used for my bench and I found I needed about 3/4" higher so I had to put spacers on top of the trestles. Its a trade off and it must be tailored to the individual body proportions and limitations. I would find Schwarz rule to be way too low for me.

Its very individual. For example, my torso is longer (ie legs shorter) for my height than most people. As a result I have issues with my back so bending a lot is leads to problems. OTOH, if the bench is high enough to suit my back, then its too high for hand planing which causes stress on shoulders and elbows.


I've found that bench heights for different tasks are different. For example lower for planing, higher for chiselling/sawing. I prefer to make the bench best for planing I can always use a stool when chiselling or a moxon vise for sawing dovetails.

Bottom line you will develop muscle memory in accordance with bench height.

I think in the perfect world, one bench for hand planing and one bench for sawing/chiselling would be ideal for me. I've found a a couple saw benches and benchtop moxon vise to quite useful.
sawbench_red.jpg
Moxon finished.jpg

[Robert Hazelwood]

For the center strip, the width of the gap where the tools sit is pretty important- things you'd end up wanting to place there are chisels, saws, squares, marking gauges. Each tool category has an ideal width but 1" is too wide for most of them (especially chisels and squares). I made mine 3/4" and it is a little wide for smaller chisels and squares. I need to add in some material to narrow the gap in a few places.

The vise positioning sounds good and for the face vise it is similar to my bench (the face vise jaw extends to the left end of the bench). I've found this handy for crosscutting things in the vise. The overhangs sound about right, but of course the tail vise determines the minimum overhang on the right side. Even if you go with a QR end vise, the guide rails need a lot of room under the bench on the larger ones. I suspect 18" like you've shown will suffice for most vises, but I'd want to make sure before I cut anything

As for wagon vise vs others, I have the BC wagon vise and while it is very nice, the only clear advantage I can think of is that the mechanism doesn't move out away from the bench as the vise is opened...i.e. the handwheel always stays in the same position. This means you need less total space for the workbench, potentially. It could also be stronger and less prone to sagging than a moving block style, at least on paper. It would be a lot of work to retrofit, especially if you are not using a router. I think Schwarz has a blog post on doing this, could be illuminating. The moving block style does seem most useful for work holding, and a QR vise extends the effective length of the bench for clamping between dogs, along with being the simplest to install.

Bench height - my bench is also 32". I'm 5'8" for reference. For the most part its fine, but can be a bit low for detail work. I have a bar stool I cut down so I can sit at a good working height for marking out, chopping with chisels, etc. The height is good for most planing work, but for real heavy work on thick material with wooden planes I think could stand it being a couple inches lower. Making the bench at the higher end of the working range and raising the lower stretcher so you have plenty of margin for future shortening seems wise to me. Bench height is personal and there's just no way to know ahead of time what you'll come to prefer, or what kinds of tasks you'll end up doing several years into the future.

On the tenon shoulder issue, to me it seems the space between the dovetail and tenon is your shoulder, and it runs the full width of the leg. I don't think adding shoulders to the sides will noticeably improve things, especially considering your legs are 8" wide, which is massive. I seriously doubt you will have racking issues!

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, Robert and Robert!

Robert Engel, I really like the idea of having a portable/removable Moxon vise for working on dovetails. They tend to require the workpiece being set higher up for sawing and marking to be comfortable, so that makes a lot of sense. Plus, they're not ideal for many other tasks. Being able to pull it out and use it whenever I want would be great. I did see other posts discussing and showing that same concept, though I really like the way yours is constructed to support the mating piece as you mark out your dovetails. I saw a similar idea, but with a separate I-beam-style support that can be moved around behind the vise or not used at all if not needed. What did you end up using to construct your Moxon? Is it heavy?

Robert Hazelwood, thanks for pointing out those issues with a gap size that's too large. I'll take a look at my tools and adjust my design accordingly. I'd love to slip a saw or chisel into the center, but it would be a huge pain if they fell through. Sounds like I'll need to narrow up the gap a bit, which isn't a big deal at this stage.

I also didn't even think to measure the length of the guides on my vise to see how far they extend. I don't think they stick out beyond 18", but it's good to check now before I do anything else.

Also, David, I forgot to address your comment regarding tenon length. I was concerned they may be too short at only 2" long. But, it seems like it wouldn't make a lot of sense to follow the "rules" for tenon size on such a large piece. (i.e. Tenon thickness is 1/3 stock thickness, width is 1/2 stock thickness, and length is 5x tenon thickness.) This would put my tenons at 5" long, which seems excessive/difficult. While I might like to do that, chopping a 5" deep blind mortise would be a gigantic pain, even if I drill it out first. Plus, the long stretchers will be connected with barrel nuts, not drawbored, which extends the nut beyond the shoulder of the tenon into the piece.

I'd be happy to make the tenons a little longer. Maybe 3" instead of the 2" in my drawing would be better.

Also, just a quick note, for the short stretchers on the top, I plan to set those just high enough where I need to plane them down to match the height of the dovetail shoulder when dry-fitting. That way they'll end up good and flat, providing a solid resting surface for the top slabs. I had noted twist/bow in these boards earlier. That's how I'm planning to address the issue in that location.

[David Eisenhauer]

My response last night was long enough, so I did not go into the details that Robert and Robert did. Agreed on their info. My take on the bench height: I will use it for planning and joinery, both of which require different working heights. I cannot "lower" my planning height on a too-high bench, but I can "raise" my joinery height on a too-low bench by using a Moxon vise or a bench-on-bench like Robert E shows when I need it. I usually have a Moxon in place on one end of my bench and have contemplated fabbing up a bench-on-bench (without a vise, holdfast holes only) for use as well. As to the center divider, I use a 4" split and have sliding, flush-to-the-bench top tool trays down in the 4" gap. The trays have a finger hole in the bottom for ease of removal and can be cleared of curlies by grabbing a handful at a time. I like to keep my marking gauges, small square, small ruler, eraser, etc down in the trays when planning or chopping so as to prevent sweeping tools off the bench and on to my concrete floor. Also, the 4" gap is easier to drop a bulky clamp head down into as well if I don't want to use a F clamp for some reason. One of the trays protrudes about 3/16" of an inch above the table top so it can be positioned as a stop for cross-bench planning and it has a narrow slot in the bottom of the tray that can be used to drop a saw down into when the tray is upside down. That tray usually stays upside down on the bench and moved wherever it needs to be. My chisels and marking knives live in portable stands that fit down into the 4" trays (handles extending well above the bench top) and can be moved from tray to tray or removed to stand on their own on the bench top or other work surface. A QR face vise can be used as a tail vise if it has the pop up stop feature and you could ensure that you leave enough space on the right end of the bench overhang top to add on there later if you wish. Some folks add in a twin screw vise there for the same purpose as well.