Cloning...

[Ron Rutter]

Oh I have seen those comments. Legion. What part of " comment re topic" didn't you get? Wow. More EGO!

[Reed Gray]

Well, this thread has diverged quite a bit. Didn't expect this. For sure, marketing is a complex issue. Survival traits do make for friction... I think a line from a movie was some thing like 'We need to stop thinking as individuals, and start thinking as a species.'

robo hippy

[Geoff Whaling]

Well, this thread has diverged quite a bit. Didn't expect this. For sure, marketing is a complex issue. Survival traits do make for friction... I think a line from a movie was some thing like 'We need to stop thinking as individuals, and start thinking as a species.'

robo hippy

Reed,

For the wood turners who don't know the story behind many of these products do you have any suggestions on how to support the "original"? A few of us have read the stories behind some of these product appropriations but I have heard that there are many more out there.

I like to support "Australian Made" first then "Australian Owned" if possible but that is becoming increasingly difficult in many areas of our economy. Fortunately it is much easier in Queensland as we have two very good family based small manufacturing businesses Vicmarc and Vermec catering to wood turners desires. I guess I'm being both selfish and thinking for the benefit of the collective in a way by suggesting other turners support Vicmarc, Vermec and the many other small businesses in Australia, the US, Canada, UK, EU etc who actually listen to their customers and do invest significant resources (for them) into R&D. Without them we would not have choice.

[Reed Gray]

Well, forums are good places for people posting about clones. It does raise problems for the moderators though because they have to sift through them and figure out what is 'correct and/or proper' to post so it isn't just about sour grapes. There was one here not too long ago. Word does get around. I am surprised that no one has tried to clone my robo rest yet or at 'new and improve it. Maybe I got it so simple that it isn't worth the effort. If some one can do me one better, more power to them. If I do some one better on their idea, I want to work with them so we both can share.

I was getting the calls from some where by people claiming to work for Microsoft with the horrible accents. I asked one of them once 'Doesn't it bother you to lie like this?' He said 'nope'. I told him 'You are what's wrong with the world' and hung up.

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

I am surprised that no one has tried to clone my robo rest yet or at 'new and improve it.

It's a nice design. I've seen other home-built rests that were quite close, but none for sale and none with your indexing pins - just have calibrated angle marks. (i.e., Darlow's "linishing jig" in figures 4.32 and 4.52 in Fundamentals of Woodturning) I like your cutout that fits close to the stone/CBN wheel.

I actually am considering building a rest myself someday that uses a screw for fine angle adjustment.

And darn it, you are responsible for influencing me to order a third CBN wheel! :-)

Unfortunately, patenting is so expensive it is hardly worth it for small things. And a patent won't stop the Chinese factories anyway.

JKJ

[Reed Gray]

Patents are part of the legal game. $10,000 at least to file a utility patent... Stuart Batty had 'issues' with my rest relative to his 'patent pending' model. After reading his application I did an eye roll that would have done any teenager proud. My lawyer sent his lawyer a letter with my arguments basically stating that every thing I based my design on were older than Stuart's dad, or mine (93 years and still goes into work every day). I mean, how long has a protractor been around???

I have looked at the screw design and thought it has possibilities for micro adjustments, but the micro adjustments would take too much time unless the set up resulted in positive indents for repeatability. Tormek now has one for adjusting their tool rest bar out and back, which might help a bit. I have pondered Lyle Jamieson's threaded tool rest posts with the nut on them for adjustment up and down as well.

I may have to get one more CBN wheel. I need to experiment with the really fine grit ones mostly to see what type of burr they raise on my scrapers for shear scraping.

I do not have a tool buying problem!!! Well, not much of one.... My interest is purely scientific!!!! Probably comes from being the son of an engineer who infected me with the 'if it ain't broke, take it apart and fix it anyway' syndrome....

robo hippy

[John K Jordan]

but the micro adjustments would take too much time unless

My thought was to use two concentric pivots, one with a protractor to set the desired angle, then mount that within a second pivot that could rock the first assembly back and forth with the screw adjustment. The angle would be set as usual by releasing a lock and aligning a mark with a scale. Since the initial angle would be set by eye the position the adjusting screw happened to be in wouldn't matter unless the screw was at the wrong end of the range. This was only a thought not yet put to paper so it may be impractical. If I can prove to myself it will work I may make one in my "spare" time for my own use. (If anyone wants to beat me to it and develop and market one, have at it!)

I use a 600 grit 10" wheel from Ken Rizza on my Tormek. I like the way it works. It does not grind as fine as the water wheel but I'm afraid a finer wheel would be very slow.

I know a guy in the patent office. I can't believe some of the nonsense. I have no personal patents but those with my name on them were painless (for me) since my employer had a office with a team of lawyers, secretaries, and deep pockets. :-) All we had to do was come up with the inventions. And write the application. And rewrite...

JKJ

[Hilel Salomon]

Ken,
As a matter of fact I was a consultant for over a dozen American businesses wishing to do business with China. I also worked for the US as an analyst ( I graduated as a physicist) before I became a Sinogolist professor. I didn't know that universities were supposed to generate profit. In my naivete, I thought that we were supposed to generate critical thinking.

[Hilel Salomon]

Hu,

What you said about Japanese manufacturing was especially true in the automotive field. When, I was invited to tour Honda, I learned that all the robotics being used early on had been developed in the US. This was, according to some of my knowledgeable friends, also true for Toyota and Nissan.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Ken,
As a matter of fact I was a consultant for over a dozen American businesses wishing to do business with China. I also worked for the US as an analyst ( I graduated as a physicist) before I became a Sinogolist professor. I didn't know that universities were supposed to generate profit. In my naivete, I thought that we were supposed to generate critical thinking.

Hilel,

While you ignored direct answers to my questions, you did identify a problem, as there is a significant difference between living within the confines of a budget and generating a profit. It's a totally different sport!

Once I was taken to lunch by 2 university professors, one, a female from Australia. After lunch we continued our discussions back at the university. Some months later when one of the professors was published, he sent me a copy of the article, with a cover letter. In the cover letter he thanked me for my contribution as he used our discussions as a major reference and even acknowledged my contribution within the article itself. I didn't find, however, it made me an expert on that university or any university for that matter.

And while critical thinking is fine, those who generate these theories owe it to themselves and their audiences to remain open minded, even skeptical of that which they profess and temper it as necessary so that generated theory more closely resembles reality.

[Bob Vavricka]

I can't contribute to the current conversation, but was wondering why this thread hasn't been moved to the Off Topic Forum. I find it has little to do with woodturning.

[Keith Outten]

Bob,

You're right....I moved this thread to off topic.
Gentlemen if we can get back to the original topic as it applies to woodworking machines.

[Reed Gray]

The original topic of the thread was about woodturning items, but it took a detour. So, getting back to the topic, I am wondering who made the first hardened drill rod tool rests? Was that Brent English of Robust? Who was the first to use carbide tipped tools?

robo hippy

[Dick Strauss]

Reed,
Folks were making the drill rod tool rests long before Brent began marketing them. The same is true of the of the EW carbide tools.

[roger wiegand]

The 1950's Delta lathe I bought in 1983 came with a (non-OEM) tool rest made from a piece of drill rod. I don't think Robust existed then.