Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Water based poly over latex?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tyler, Texas
    Posts
    356

    Water based poly over latex?

    I am in the process of painting bedside tables , I built for a girls room ,using white latex semi-gloss paint. I am using a brush to apply, since I dont have a tip big enough to spray latex. I used flotroel to help in leveling the paint and will sand flat when dry. Afterwards, I would like to spray on waterbased poly to help in protection of the tables. I am afraid of incompatability though.Latex paint will be kinda soft for quit awhile after application(sometimes weeks), while waterbased poly dries almost instantly. Has anyone successfully done this ? Is there a better way? Thanks, Randy
    Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    37,698
    You can do it, but you would be better served by using flat paint...it's not a thick or soft as you'll have with the semi-gloss. I actually did exactly this last weekend for my wall-hung bookshelf project for our soon-to-be-adoptive daughters' room. I did not have time to order the water bourne acrylic finish I would normally use for this kind of project, so used custom tinted latex flat paint from the 'borg and Minwax Polycrylic to top coat for sheen and "protection". The Polycrylic is merely a clear acrylic product with polyurethane resins added to it.

    Using satin, semigloss or gloss latex paint on a table or bookshelves is inviting interesting "sticky" situations...as my best friend just found out when she painted a nice chest to use as a coffee table. Despite advise to use a different product, she went with the 'borg recommendation and yesterday, a magazine stuck to the table.

    But to your original question, you will not have a "compatibility" issue with putting a water-based polyurethane product over your paint. But as you surmise, the tendancy of latex paint to stay soft for a very long time...sometimes "indefinately"...could be a challenge.
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 09-09-2005 at 9:52 AM.
    “Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

    If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say -- talk in your sleep...

    Be safety conscious. 80% of people are caused by accidents.

    Equestrian Sports. The most fun you can have with your boots still on...


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Tyler, Texas
    Posts
    356
    Thanks for the info Jim. I shoud've ask first, huh. I have 2 coats of semi-gloss on now....dangit. I'll sand them down tonight and see if that will help dry them out more. Might have to strip them now. What is the paint you didnt have time to order? I would love to find paint that would be compatible with my gun (Apollo conversion), thats not automotive. (expensive) Thanks again! Randy
    Always remember that you're unique. Just like everyone else.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    37,698
    Randy, I use Target Coatings USL (which can be clear or tinted any color of the rainbow at this point) and Fuhr International 9100, which can also be tinted similarly. You can buy Target direct or both are available from Jeff Jewitt at Homestead Finishing. (Jeff is the noted author about finishing) Jeff (or similar third parties) may be the better source if you want tinting...I had him do the 9100 for my kitchen project in 2003 and he was bang-on to match the color chips that matched our plans.
    “Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

    If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say -- talk in your sleep...

    Be safety conscious. 80% of people are caused by accidents.

    Equestrian Sports. The most fun you can have with your boots still on...


  5. #5
    Jim, could milk paint used in this application as well? Just curious
    I can pay retail anywhere, so how's your service?
    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory one project at a time
    Maker of precision cut firewood


  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    37,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Ballent
    Jim, could milk paint used in this application as well? Just curious
    Yes, although traditionally, milk paint is often "top coated" with BLO... No harm in using varnish...but, since the milk paint is water based, it may be best to spray the top coating. I'm not sure if milk paint will re-disolve or not...I've only ever used it once and it was a long time ago.
    “Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

    If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say -- talk in your sleep...

    Be safety conscious. 80% of people are caused by accidents.

    Equestrian Sports. The most fun you can have with your boots still on...


  7. #7
    Cool thanks for the answer... I have seen articles on using milk paint in FWW so I was not sure if it would apply to this application.
    I can pay retail anywhere, so how's your service?
    Grabbing defeat from the jaws of victory one project at a time
    Maker of precision cut firewood


  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    1,335

    Latex enamel, not indoors...

    "Despite advise to use a different product, she went with the 'borg recommendation and yesterday, a magazine stuck to the table.", Mr. Becker

    I never recommend latex enamel on any woodwork inside the house, period. Brush strokes never level. Heaven forbid you try to paint a slab door or cabinets I don't care how much Floetrol you use. And, it never dries hard enough. I'd use a clear coat over latex anytime you intend to use what you are finishing.
    Phil in Big D
    The only difference between a taxidermist and the taxman, is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. Mark Twain

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Lafayette, IN
    Posts
    3,686
    Still refusing to catch up with the times, eh, Phil? We've found a waterborne product (latex would be inaccurate here) that pretty much acts like an oil enamel except that it doesn't yellow. It flows/levels very well, dries hard quickly (sandable like an oil enamel in a day or so), is very durable, but is in a water clean-up vehicle. I sprayed about 75 doors and a couple thousand feet of trim with it this summer (two houses, average price of ~$750k), and all who saw it were pretty impressed.

    The product? Sherwin-Williams' Pro-Classic Waterborne Enamel. It does say on the label that it contains some Mineral Spirits, though! Go figure.

    While I'm sure a clear coat over paint can work, I don't see any real reason for it, unless you're going for that look--the extra depth you can get that way. Waterborne products have come a long way, baby!
    Jason

    "Don't get stuck on stupid." --Lt. Gen. Russel Honore


  10. #10
    A quick note....a nice clear coat water based that I have been using is called Ceramathane and I buy it Factory Paint (chain near here, it is a Murallo product). It is nice and works well over paint. Expensive, but worth it.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    37,698
    Phil, I do think there is a lot of merit to using oil based paints for trim work, but it's unrealistic these days to expect the non-pro to accept that in most cases, both for availablity reasons (they all shop at the 'borg) and because of the smell and clean-up. And as Jason points out (he's a pro painter...), there are products available today that are water bourne that have some awesome properties. (I'm going to have to check out that SW product he mentions)

    I tried really hard to get my friend to go to SW or some other "real" paint store and get an oil-based product to paint her chest. (Furniture!!) It didn't happen and what I told her would happen with the latex she actually bought did happen...stuff sticks. (A real happin'in' thing going on here... )
    “Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

    If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say -- talk in your sleep...

    Be safety conscious. 80% of people are caused by accidents.

    Equestrian Sports. The most fun you can have with your boots still on...


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Shoreline, CT
    Posts
    2,616
    Just a note--milk paint can be top coated with a waterborne product without redissolving. Unprotected it may waterspot, but ends up being very durable. Ordinary solvents and even methylene chloride stripper do not cut it after it has been well cured, for example.
    Last edited by Steve Schoene; 09-11-2005 at 11:40 PM.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    1,335

    Here we go, again....

    "I sprayed about 75 doors and a couple thousand feet of trim with it this summer (two houses, average price of ~$750k), and all who saw it were pretty impressed." Jason Roehl

    I love documentation. You sprayed them, ol' buddy. Any paint sprayed has a better look than brushing. My point has always been that oil enamel is far more durable than latex enamel. And, when you brush it on, there is no comparison. Oil levels out far better than latex when brushed. Few are willing to mask off their entire home to spray paint. For non yellowing, mainly with whites, latex is way out in front. But the average guy who will brush his base boards, door jambs, doors, and holy smokes, louvered doors and shutters, is better off with alkyd enamel. Exterior work is a completely different ball game.
    Last edited by Phil Phelps; 09-10-2005 at 10:05 AM.
    Phil in Big D
    The only difference between a taxidermist and the taxman, is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. Mark Twain

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    37,698
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Schoene
    Just a note--milk paint can be top coated with a waterborne product without redissolving.
    Thanks, Steve! I wasn't sure about that!
    “Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.” - Red Buttons

    If you want your spouse to listen and pay strict attention to every word you say -- talk in your sleep...

    Be safety conscious. 80% of people are caused by accidents.

    Equestrian Sports. The most fun you can have with your boots still on...


  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Tx.
    Posts
    1,335

    Unrealistic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Becker
    Phil, I do think there is a lot of merit to using oil based paints for trim work, but it's unrealistic these days to expect the non-pro to accept that in most cases, both for availablity reasons (they all shop at the 'borg) and because of the smell and clean-up. And as Jason points out (he's a pro painter...), there are products available today that are water bourne that have some awesome properties. (I'm going to have to check out that SW product he mentions)

    I tried really hard to get my friend to go to SW or some other "real" paint store and get an oil-based product to paint her chest. (Furniture!!) It didn't happen and what I told her would happen with the latex she actually bought did happen...stuff sticks. (A real happin'in' thing going on here... )
    Jim, most folks shop for convenience. In my opinion, the borg carries a low line of paints. And, most want something fast and products that will dry fast. Fast doesn't translate to quality. I respect Jason's reasons for using latex. We have had this discussion years ago. Mostly, we are talking application here. Spraying or brushing. Most don't have an airless rig. If you're brushing woodwork, forget the latex enamel. Your results won't be as good as an alkyd enamel. I continually look for a better products or a better way because I use many kinds of paints in my 39 years in the exhibit business. I'll stay with alkyd for interior woodwork. Chemists have come a long way improving latex enamel, but they aren't there yet to suit my quality of work. And chemists have done a better job in toning down the odor of alkyd products.
    Phil in Big D
    The only difference between a taxidermist and the taxman, is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. Mark Twain

Similar Threads

  1. Water Based Finishes
    By Ben Abate in forum Project Finishing
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-29-2007, 9:03 PM
  2. Water Based Poly over BLO?
    By Matt Meiser in forum Project Finishing
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 06-13-2005, 8:39 PM
  3. Water based Poly over Danish Oil
    By Craig Salyers in forum Project Finishing
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-21-2005, 9:18 PM
  4. Min-Wax Poly Acrylic Water Based Top Coat
    By Mark J Bachler in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 03-08-2005, 3:49 PM
  5. Water Base Poly in Tung Mix?
    By Russ Filtz in forum General Woodworking and Power Tools
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-15-2004, 7:10 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •