Chip breaker or no for tapered woodie

[Bob Glenn]

I am making a couple panel raising planes, a right and left. Found a couple tapered irons on the bay and they came with chip breakers. I am trying to build these planes in the Krenoff style, glued up, rather than the excavating wood for the iron and wedge style recently outlined in one the woodworking publications.
It would be easier to eliminate the chip breaker altogether since the iron is already tapered. Any thoughts on this?

I've made a couple Krenoff planes, a smoother and an jack that I have installed nontapered irons a quarter inch thick out of A2 steel, wedged under a dowel and have no problems setting the iron or keeping them in tune. Thoughts please. Bob

[Stewie Simpson]

Bob. The following attachment may be of interest regarding the need for a chip breaker on a panel raising plane.

http://redrosereproductions.com/cate...raising-plane/

And here is a panel raising plane in action;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNfihxeAAaA

[Kees Heiden]

Without having used a raising plane, I would say that a chipbreaker is a very usefull thing in one of these. You are always planing at least one side against the grain. And you have the crossgrain portions where a low bedding angle is usefull. So, tearout is a pretty likely.

But when others have real experience, their opinion is worth more.

That Redrose blog looks like it has usefull information, thanks for bringing it up.

[Derek Cohen]

If I were building a panel raising plane, I would first take into account what is required - 4 sides, two of which are cross grain, one wit the grain and one is against the grain.

Now, theoretically, one could use three planes for this: two planes (left- and right handed) for planing with the grain (preferably capable of taming interlocked grain, since many panels use figured wood), and a plane with a low cutting angle for cross grain work (even common angled planes will leave a rougher surface across the grain). Obviously, this is not practical.

You could build a BU panel raising plane and use two blades, one high angled and the other for a low cutting angle. That will work - I have demonstrated this with the LV LA Jack Rabbet.

Or, you could build a BD plane with a 40 degree bed and tame the grain with a chipbreaker. One blade only. I have done this with a LV Custom Jointer (#7).

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bob Glenn]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go without the chip breakers since I am making both a right and left plane to deal with reversing grain. Lacking that, I can always open up the side ramps in the escapement to accomodate the extra space needed to add the breaker.

Derek, I don't know how you would build a wooden plane that you could use a B/U and B/D iron without changing the mouth opening.

[Bob Glenn]

Stewie, excellent attachments. Thanks, Bob

[Derek Cohen]

...
Derek, I don't know how you would build a wooden plane that you could use a B/U and B/D iron without changing the mouth opening.

?????

Did I suggest this?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Patrick Chase]

?????

Did I suggest this?

Regards from Perth

Derek

You didn't. I think the OP was confused by your suggestion to make multiple blades at different bevel angles (but not orientations) for a BU plane.

[Patrick Chase]

Thanks guys. I think I'll go without the chip breakers since I am making both a right and left plane to deal with reversing grain.

Having both R+L grains helps when working straight-grained wood, where there is a single grain direction for each cut. Cap irons and high cutting angles become indispensable when working wood with grain reversals, for example in interlocked grain.

[Bob Glenn]

Silly me! I can't use the chip breakers anyway since the irons have to be ground at a skewed angle. This would require the chipbreaker lip to be ground off at the same angle.

[Glen Canaday]

Silly me! I can't use the chip breakers anyway since the irons have to be ground at a skewed angle. This would require the chipbreaker lip to be ground off at the same angle.

How would that stop you?

[Stewie Simpson]

Silly me! I can't use the chip breakers anyway since the irons have to be ground at a skewed angle. This would require the chipbreaker lip to be ground off at the same angle.

Hi Bob. These type of traditional hand planes are not designed to be used with double iron.

Same goes for the 6 1/4" coffin shaped 85* Toothing Plane I am currently drawing up plans for.

Stewie;

[Steve Voigt]

I have no idea what Stewie means by "these type of traditional hand planes," but double iron panel raisers have been around since the 18th century. The Gabriel inventories in the 1790s contained both single and double iron versions. That said, the single iron versions are probably more common and easier to make.

In a less traditional vein, Lars Parrington made a double iron panel raiser out of an old transitional. There's a nice thread on wood central, in addition to the link above.

So, a double iron is certainly not out of the question, but it would be a more difficult build.

[Patrick Chase]

Hi Bob. These type of traditional hand planes are not designed to be used with double iron.

Same goes for the 6 1/4" coffin shaped 85* Toothing Plane I am currently drawing up plans for.

Stewie;

Hmm, I almost always agree with you Stewie but in this case I think I must be missing something.

It seems to me that the OP's application (a tapered woodie panel raiser) is very different from the one you describe as "same" (a toothing plane). The key difference is that in a BD toothing plane the teeth face forward, which means that the blade<->cap iron interface would be gappy and therefore an obvious shaving trap. There are no such concerns or constraints for a panel-raising plane. A high-angle toother also doesn't need a cap iron the way conventional planes do. Toothers mitigate tearout via a completely different mechanism as you yourself have pointed out many times.

In addition to the examples Steve Voight gave there is at least one other major precedent for a flush-cutting plane with a cap-iron: The 10-1/2.

[Stewie Simpson]

A traditional wooden bodied; skewed mouth; panel raising plane; does not use a double iron.

A traditional wooden bodied; high angle; Bd; toothing plane; does not use a double iron.

That is the commonality I was referring too.

I should also add; there is another type of a traditional panel raising plane that has a single iron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh-7A9VqZBk

Stewie;