Stanley/Fray Brace age estimation

[Tomi Rosso]

I found another interesting tool from my grandmother dad stash. He was passed away long long time ago and his old tools are used to lay all over the yard. Former generations have not shown any value to those.

This time I found old brace. Thanks for google, I found quite lot information about it.

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Quite rough looking bastard. It's Stanley era Fray brace. To be precise Sweetheart era brace. Amazingly ratchet mechanism was working good, despite of that all rust. Head is replaced. Looks like some old bedhead decoration to me.

First I think that socket is wrong too, because it have Stanley Sweetheart logo, but after I google little bit I found more of those. So it could be original.

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Braces sweep says FRAY No 1105 A. Looks suitable to me. Only I could not found that suffix A from anywhere.

Could anyone told more about these Stanley era Fray braces? Those was manufactured in Frays factory in Bridgeport? Was at that time selling name Stanley or Fray or both? Was those cheaper than original Stanleys? That's probably are right, because it found it here in Finland. Expensive range tools are imported quite few here those days.

Was those sold only in USA or was those exactly export products?

What about age estimation.....? Sweetheart era told something and does this 1105 A tell more? Could anyone say something to that?

Is there any catalog where that era tools could be found?

I need to clean it little bit someday and make new head. Seems that I could do real work with it still.....

[Tomi Rosso]

Lets raise this thread little bit before it drops to second page. If someone who knows something about these braces comes to forum, I could get some information.

How long time Stanley kept these braces in its catalog? And are these double marked braces more common or rare than just Stanley or Fray marked?

It's quite clear to me now, that this brace comes from US, not local reseller. Grand grandfather got US made stuff (tools and clocks) as payment from neighbour who have relatives in America at beginning of 1900.

[Jim Koepke]

Tomi, I looked in my John Walter book and it doesn't list this item. I am finding a lot of Stanley products, especially the children of the many marriages of Stanley and other companies, not listed in his book.

I did find a few things that you likely also found at:

http://www.sydnassloot.com/brace/Stanley.htm

and

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/fray.htm

I do know sometimes manufactures would stamp a letter after the tool number to indicate these were part of a contract buy from a government agency or corporation.

Keep looking, new information pops up on the internet every day.

jtk

[Tomi Rosso]

Yes, I found those pages already. Still interesting information.

If looking at old John S Fray catalog from 1911, models at page 17 are marked with suffix A and B. Wooden materials differs between models. Could that be same case with these later manufactured braces too. That those were part of some goverment or corporation contract sound quite possible too. Very interesting information indeed.

This my brace looks exactly like catalog says at model 1105. So be it that it's probably made over a decade later. I have seen pictures of 8 inch model 1085 which is stamped JOHN S FRAY and it looks also just like catalog picture and also at my brace. Only dimensions are different. Sounds quite strange that new manufacturer makes same model without any changes so long time. I thought that some product development are done during that long time.

One thing bounce to my mind when looking those dates. Some sources says that Stanley bought Frays company at 1909. That John S Fray company catalog is dated to 1911. I does not found any mention at Stanley from that catalog. Some sources says differently that Fray was bought by Stanley at 1920. That 1920 seems more logical, because now Stanley are selling old stock and only change those chucks that braces are marked Stanley too. And that's why it not found any catalogs and are not so common. But in the other hand that year 1909 comes front more often when surfing through internet.....

Goes quite difficult, but interesting.....

[Stewie Simpson]

Hi Tomi. I found the following link that may answer some of your questions. Specifically;

After the takeover in 1909 Stanley wisely retained the Fray name on braces coming from the Fray works at Bridgeport,until the closure in 1927.

Generally if it is pre Stanley it would read "John S Fray & Co", post Stanley would be either "The John S Fray Co" or "Stanley Rule & Level" and included the sweetheart brand.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/archiv.../t-179869.html

Stewie;

[Tomi Rosso]

Thanks a lot. That explains much. That was very interesting link.

Seems that Fray factory works quite independently and Stanley stays at only owner. Quite wise move. Maybe Fray braces are sold under Fray trademark also.

[Stewie Simpson]

Tomi. Disston used similar practices to that outlined by Stanley Tool Works.

Stewie;

[Jim Koepke]

Sounds quite strange that new manufacturer makes same model without any changes so long time. I thought that some product development are done during that long time.

If you have a winner, why change it?

Just looked at the site with Stanley trade marks:

http://www.antique-used-tools.com/stantms.htm

If the marks were the same across all the lines, then yours may be between 1923 and 1935.

jtk

[Tomi Rosso]

If you have a winner, why change it?

Todays winner could be tomorrow at second place, if no development is done.

I admit that I use quite engineering way of thinking. Probably job is guilty of that....

But thanks that link too.

-TR