First mortise

[Casey Carr]

How long should it take to cut a mortise?

I'm building a base for a friend's butcher block top that he wants to use as a work bench. In order to try new things, I'm building it like a real work bench, just scaled down. Double mortise and tenon for the legs in the shoes. It took me two hours to cut the first one. Still have three more to go in this shoe, four in the other shoe and then more in the top and legs.

Full disclosure, I can't trust my drill press as far as I can throw it so I drilled 1/4" holes for the 3/8" mortise. I'm also using regular bench chisels and not mortise chisels.

Also have never fully finished sharpening my chisels. Need to find a better method of sharpening, or it could be I'm too anal, which I think I'm starting to lean towards. I look at every surface with a 10x loupe and just got bored with flattening the backs of a dozen chisels or so. I've never touched the faces with a stone and these things are still cutting through wood pretty easily, so I'm guessing they're sharp enough. And they are cutting and not just ripping fibers.

I also noticed I'm coming in at a very shallow angle and compressing the edges of the mortise.

Would a mortise chisel help that much? If so, do I just go at it with a 3/8" chisel or start out smaller? I was at least happy the edges met up in the middle so I didn't go crooked. Or do I need to bite the bullet and get a better drill press? I've looked at two the last two weekends and they've both had more runout than mine currently does, and mine is about .030", but still hard enough to hit an accurate starting point with it.

I wasn't frustrated with it, kind of relaxing actually, but would like to speed things up since I like this joint. My time is limited enough and I would like to actually get some furniture built someday for myself rather than just hammer out mortises.

[lowell holmes]

Download this article. You are overthinking the process.


http://www.popularwoodworking.com/wp...SE_BY_HAND.pdf

The article shows mortise chisels. They are desirable, but bevel edge chisels will do just fine.
Check Paul Sellers articles on line.

[Daniel O'Neill]

This video helped me a lot.

Paul Sellers hand cut mortise.

[Jake Elkins]

How long should it take to cut a mortise?

I'm building a base for a friend's butcher block top that he wants to use as a work bench. In order to try new things, I'm building it like a real work bench, just scaled down. Double mortise and tenon for the legs in the shoes. It took me two hours to cut the first one. Still have three more to go in this shoe, four in the other shoe and then more in the top and legs.

Full disclosure, I can't trust my drill press as far as I can throw it so I drilled 1/4" holes for the 3/8" mortise. I'm also using regular bench chisels and not mortise chisels.

Also have never fully finished sharpening my chisels. Need to find a better method of sharpening, or it could be I'm too anal, which I think I'm starting to lean towards. I look at every surface with a 10x loupe and just got bored with flattening the backs of a dozen chisels or so. I've never touched the faces with a stone and these things are still cutting through wood pretty easily, so I'm guessing they're sharp enough. And they are cutting and not just ripping fibers.

I also noticed I'm coming in at a very shallow angle and compressing the edges of the mortise.

Would a mortise chisel help that much? If so, do I just go at it with a 3/8" chisel or start out smaller? I was at least happy the edges met up in the middle so I didn't go crooked. Or do I need to bite the bullet and get a better drill press? I've looked at two the last two weekends and they've both had more runout than mine currently does, and mine is about .030", but still hard enough to hit an accurate starting point with it.

I wasn't frustrated with it, kind of relaxing actually, but would like to speed things up since I like this joint. My time is limited enough and I would like to actually get some furniture built someday for myself rather than just hammer out mortises.

I now cut the majority of my mortises by hand, and typically get good results, however I am still struggling with through mortises. My most commonly used chisels are Narex 3/8 inch and Narex 5/16 mortise chisels from Lee Valley. Good deal at only like 15 bucks apiece. I used to just use sandpaper on granite, but bought a WorkSharp (3000?) a couple years ago, and it has been a great investment. About 5 minutes to get a new chisel truly sharp. I'll chop a mortise (5 minutes or less), then spend 10 seconds on the WorkSharp, and chop the next. I have previously used a cheap benchtop mortiser and a drill press, but I grew tired of inaccuracies and limitations once the stock gets longer then a few feet or wider than a few inches, or needing a mortise deeper than two inches, etc. I like power tools, and if I had the coin for a large mortiser or a Festool domino I would probably be doing that. However, I am content with doing all by hand for now. I also like the visceral motion of swinging a medieval-looking wooden mallet. However, the neander way is much louder than with electrons, so no more frame building at 10 PM.

Bottom line, get a mortise chisel or two and a repeatable and fast method for sharpening.

[David Eisenhauer]

+3 on having a look at some Paul Sellers quickie How-To You Tube videos for some basic mortise chopping instruction if you want to go the hand mortising direction. As to sharpening, it does not sound like you are really set up to fully sharpen a chisel in a fairly quick and painless manner. One can sharpen without the use of a 10X loupe and working on 10 chisels at a time will definitely wear you out. If you are chopping out 3/8" mortises, then fully sharpen a 3/8" chisel (the size to use for a 3/8" mortise) and drop back to re hone it as required during the mortising session. From your comments above, it may be possible that (at this stage) you are not familiar of how much better and easier it is to work with a truly sharp chisel. You will need to sharpen the bevel side of the chisel and you can use either a bench or mortise chisel. Both work, especially for smaller mortises in the 1/4" and 3/8" sizes. Again, have a look at Paul Sellers on You Tube.

[Casey Carr]

Thank you guys! Ten minutes sounds a whole lot better than 2 hours. I'll have to look at the video tonight.

I took 3 of the chisels I have and run them on my 4000 and 8000 grit stones last night, the faces really don't take any time, just trying to get a mirror finish on the backs had me a little frustrated and I don't think I need to be that anal. I might try and find a waterstone somewhere between the 800 and 4000, seemed to be more work than it should have been to get the scratch marks out between the two grits. I was probably going for optical quality, and on ten chisels all at once I got burned out. I'll try the next mortise and see how it goes with the next one having sharpened the faces also. I'll also try to sharpen a couple chisels a night and just be done with them.

I do have a worksharp 3000, but I've never plugged it in. I worry about using it to flatten the backs, I'm afraid of rounding the edges over. Just me personally, but I think I'll have a better chance of getting the backs truly flat with stones, but I can see how touching up the faces with the worksharp would be easier than having to get the bucket of water out and deal with that mess. It's amazing how quickly a 220 grit piece of sandpaper wears out flattening stones.

I'll try another one this weekend and let you know how it goes!

[John TenEyck]

Think power tools. A router will cut a perfect mortise in less time than it takes to sharpen one chisel. Cutting mortises by hand may be therapeutic and provide a sense of accomplishment to some - but I'm not one of them.

John

[Charles Lent]

I agree with John. A fixed base router with a collar, a spiral bit, and a pattern cut from 1/4" plywood or MDF and attached where you want the mortise with screws or double sided tape will make your mortise in just a few minutes. You will only need to chisel the corners to square them if you want them square. I never chop mortises any more.

Charley

[Casey Carr]

I may eventually do them with a router, but the mortise I'm cutting is 1.75" deep. Plus I'd have to order an spiral router bit. I still may do that with some of the more shallow ones I have to do.

[Zech Wicker]

Using bench chisels is fine, but I would suggest honing them to a 35 degree angle as opposed to the 25 degree that most bench chisels are. Depending on the quality of steel athe 25 degrees the edge can actually even start to roll if you are doing a lot of chopping. I would second the ease of of use of the Worksharp 3000, but if you are doing a lot of sharpening then it can get a little costly and tedious having to replace the disks and change them out. There are a ton of sharpening methods out there and I think you are best if you just pick one and stick with it. This saves you time on new equipment, and learning new techniques. It also allows you to become proficient more quickly without overwhelming yourself. I really The Woodwhisperer video on sharpening with Shapton stones. I use them in conjunction with an old Eclipse honing guide and board setup with stop blocksmoking so I can quickly set my honing angle. As far as frequency of sharpening, I think so much of that depends on the quality of steel. After a good honing on good steel, I will often just strop the edge if it seems like it is getting dull. Hope this info helps. Oh and to answer your original question, there are to many variables for a specific answer. (How experienced are you? How sharp are tools, and of what quality are they? How big or small is the mortise itself?) More often then not I do use my drill press, and then hog out the rest with a mortise chisel. Don't worry so much about getting the bottom super cleaned out and square as it is not where the strength of the mortise and tenon joint is at.

[John TenEyck]

If you buy carbide bits they will last for hundreds and hundreds of mortises. After you cut them with a router your chisels will be lonely - and your hands won't hurt.

John

[Casey Carr]

I think I'll get some mortise chisels before I change the angle on my chisels. They are quality chisels, was hoping this wouldn't come up. Asked a question on sharpening a few years ago on some forum and felt berated that my starter chisels were what they are. That aside, I've pretty much settled on water stones and was planning on using the worksharp for touching up the faces quickly.

I did go over the backs of all of them tonight with my 800 stone and I think they're all fine. I'll go over them with the 4000/8000 stones tomorrow and see where they're at. The three I was using on this mortise are all sharp now, my arm is pretty bald where I dry shaved with them! I took them thru the whole process. I'll give it another go this weekend on the next hole.

And these are through mortises, how do you deal with the bottom on a non-thru mortise anyways. I know it's not where the strength lies, but how ugly can it be?

[Nicholas Lawrence]

You keep talking about working on the backs. You only need to do that once, when you first sharpen them. After that, just hone the bevel and go.

[David Eisenhauer]

The bottoms of mortises can be as ugly as they end up being as long as they are deep enough to accept the full-depth insertion of the tenon. That being said, they actually do not usually end up too bad if you are consistent with the depth of your chisel insertion (for lack of a better way to explain) when chopping the mortise. For the deeper mortise you are working on, it may be beneficial to add on a depth limiting masking tape strip to your chisel to help you see when you have achieved final depth. As you make successive "chops" with waste removal leverage moving along the length of the mortise, all down to the tape marker, the bottom ends up being fairly consistent in depth. A good way to sharpen chisels (either bench or mortise) for mortising is to flatten the back, then use your initial stones (or diamond, sand paper, whatever) to grind the bevel face to an approximate 25 deg angle, then use your finest grit stone to hone in a small (short length, say 1/16" long or so) 30 or 35 deg bevel to the very tip (cutting end) of the chisel. This is called a secondary or micro bevel. That final, steeper bevel should not fail as quickly as the shallower 25 deg primary bevel and you need only re hone that micro bevel from time to time as you are working. The re honing takes very little time at all. The micro bevel is easily added to any existing primary bevel and is used on all types of chisels as required. Usually, only fine hand-paring only (no hammer striking used) chisels are used at shallower primary bevel angles like 20 - 25 deg.

[John TenEyck]

A router leaves a perfectly smooth, flat bottomed mortise.

And your hands won't hurt.

John