Cabinet-Finishing Damsel in Distress! Need Help!

[Sara Gabriel]

Hello Sawmill Creek Community,

I may have made a big mistake and need some seasoned advice. I'm finishing kitchen cabinets and erroneously--according to my father, who is a woodworker by hobby--chosen Shellac as my finish. (I'm really attracted to products labeled "non-toxic" and the Zinsser Bulls Eye can declared that it was a "great" choice for cabinets.) I've already applied two coats to the cabinets themselves and the drawer fronts. I've not gotten to the doors as I'm not finished staining them yet. According to my father, Shellac is the worst choice of all the protective finishes. He never uses it. He stated that it won't hold up as it's the "softest" of the finishes. (I've since done a lot of research on Shellac and found there are many benefits to it. So, I don't know why one would never use it.) We discussed my options. I refuse to strip the cabinets down and start over (they are looking very nice, btw). He stated that I should put one more coat of Shellac on the parts I've already shellacked, and then use a wiping polyurethane like Minwax on the doors (he uses a wiping poly on all his furniture projects). I asked him if it would make the doors have a different appearance from the drawers and the rest of the cabinets. He said he didn't think so. The Shellac is clear. I would choose a clear polyurethane.

My question is, would you follow my father's advice? If not, what would you do and why? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Distressed Damsel (aka Sara)

[Art Mann]

Shellac isn't a very durable finish but it has the wonderful property of acting as an intermediate coating between different finishes. Wipe on polyurethane would work just fine right on top of the shellac. There are many other choices. I'm not an expert and will let subsequent posters provide more finish suggestions. I just wanted to say that you haven't done anything bad so far and your father gave you a good suggestion.

[Mark Kornell]

Sara,

Shellac is a perfectly acceptable finish. Although not the toughest finish, it is tough enough for most uses.

Cabinet doors and drawer fronts don't take a lot of abuse, except around handles and pulls. In those areas, even the toughest conversion varnishes will show wear. But unlike the tougher finishes, shellac is easily repairable.

If you decide to apply another finish, shellac makes a good primer coat. But even the clear shellac adds some color, so you would want to treat all show surfaces the same to get a consistent result. (IOW, shellac the doors too)

[Sam Murdoch]

Sara,

Shellac is a perfectly acceptable finish. Although not the toughest finish, it is tough enough for most uses.

Cabinet doors and drawer fronts don't take a lot of abuse, except around handles and pulls. In those areas, even the toughest conversion varnishes will show wear. But unlike the tougher finishes, shellac is easily repairable.

If you decide to apply another finish, shellac makes a good primer coat. But even the clear shellac adds some color, so you would want to treat all show surfaces the same to get a consistent result. (IOW, shellac the doors too)

I agree that shellac is "perfectly acceptable" for your application and looks great too. No need to top coat. In a high humidity situation (read - bathroom) or on countertops where alcohol or water spills could be issues I would not use shellac but for cabinets - doors and parts - no problem. Plus - it is easy to repair - also rugged enough as a finish to have been used on floors. Here is an informative link - http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/shellac2.html

You will get long years of service from your finish, likely longer than the cabinets will last (assuming they are particle board or mdf core production cabinets). I would say in this case - if you like the look - love the finish.

[Conrad Fiore]

I'll let one of the experts comment on what if any topcoat you should put over the shellac.
However I will point out that the Bulls Eye product is a shellac that has not been dewaxed and may be problematic with a topcoat of poly.

[glenn bradley]

Another shellac fan here. Many people have trouble working with shellac and tendto give it a bad name . . . then there are those of us who can't understand why. It is so easy to work with once you try it a bit. Shellac is not as durable as a varnish or a poly product but, very acceptable in low wear areas . . . also my preferred finish whenever it is appropriate.

I generally stick with the de-waxed products (Zinsser Seal Coat for example) but, have used regular Bulls-Eye stuff with good result. As Conrad points out, shellac containing wax has been reported as causing problems with some specific top coats but, there are just as many reports that this is not so.

I would probably pick something more durable for cabinets that were over a sink or stove top but, if you cook as much (read 'as little') as I do this would not be a problem. Shellac is used as a moisture barrier so I often wonder about the comments that it is troublesome around water. Almost any wood is troublesome around water if the finish is not properly applied but, I would still want a more resilient top coat for kitchens and baths.

Shellac is not resistant to alcohol so if you will be splashing martinis around the kitchen there may be trouble. Of course, if you are splashing martinis around the kitchen you may have other problems to address that are beyond your choice of finish ;-)

[Steve Schoene]

The risk to shellac in kitchens isn't alcohol. The big problem is cleaners. Most of the spray cleaners around the house are strongly alkaline and alkaline destroys shellac rather quickly. Ammonia is an example. but it is not the only damaging cleaner. So you have to do a bit of introspection about how you and your family feel about cleanliness and how to achieve that.

[Prashun Patel]

I too would not use shellac alone on cabinets. The reason is that it's a brittle finish. it will show scratches. Around the corners of your drawers and doors, you will notice wear and tear.

The big problem with finishes that people do not think about isn't even the cleaners; it's the RUBBING of cloth repeatedly, thousands of times a year. That amounts to a sanding. This may be an issue on the cabinets beneath your sink.

Wearing through isn't such an aesthetic issue in some instances - unless you have stained. in that case, you can quickly compromise the color around the edges.

If I were you, I would topcoat the cabinets, and drawers with a more durable coating.

My first question is: How did you apply the shellac? Did you spray or brush it? If you brushed it, do you have access to spray equipment?

There are waterbased topcoats that will be more protective than the shellac. However, given that you used Bullseye, you may have to use a barrier coat of a DEWAXED shellac (Zinsser Sealcoat is such a product). Waterbased topcoats are arguably more friendly to the eco/health concerned than than oil based counterparts.

If you do not have access to HVLP spray equipment, then I humbly suggest you BUY one to complete this project. You can get an entry level unit for about $150. I have such a unit (and can give you the sku) and it sprays shellac and waterbased topcoats very well. You can spray both products outside or in your vented garage (assuming the temp > 60 degrees)

[Art Mann]

I agree with Steve.

[John TenEyck]

I too would not use shellac for kitchen cabinets without a durable topcoat. It will have about the shortest life of any finish you could use - your father was right. Grease (I don't care how neat and tidy you are unless you don't cook - hey, I have friends who have beautiful kitchens and never cook), greasy hands (my wife's), food, cleaners, etc. will all damage shellac and turn it into a soft, dirty, sticky mess faster than those things eventually do to nearly any finish.

As mentioned, don't put poly directly over shellac until you apply a coat of dewaxed shellac to act as a bond layer. You can use Bullseye spray can shellac or Sealcoat as both are 100% wax free. Nearly any finish is OK on top. If you have a spray gun, great, there are a lot of products you can use. If not, a wiping varnish would be a good choice, including the Minwax poly.

Natural products are nice - when they are appropriate for the application. This isn't one of them. Better to go with "Better living through chemistry.".

John

[Sara Gabriel]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my query. I now have a plan and feel much better. I will coat everything with de-waxed Shellac and then finish with a wiping poly. I have much to learn, and although I do trust my father's advice, I feel many heads are better than one. I imagine I'll be asking for advice again as my husband and I bought a fixer-upper and he's as much a novice as I. Thanks again!

[Scott Holmes]

A little more advice for you...

Adding a de-waxed shellac before using a poly varnish is a very wise move, however applying it with a brush will not achieve the desired results; a barrier coat of de-waxed shellac. If must be sprayed; brushing will allow the wax already on the project to be redistributed to the top of the new film. A barrier coat is need for poly varnishes and water borne finishes.


Another word of caution: Shellac should not be built-up as you can with varnish, lacquer, or water borne finishes... The thinnest possible coat that is flawless is the rule. If the shellac is too thick it will alligator (crack, etc.).

[George Bokros]

The thinnest possible coat that is flawless is the rule. If the shellac is too thick it will alligator (crack, etc.).

Is four coats to many? I used 2# cut reduced to aprox 1 1/2 cut.

[John TenEyck]

How long ago did you complete the project? Seriously, there's no way to know how many coats is too many. It depends upon so many factors, how much absorbed into the wood, how thick each layer was, the ambient conditions, etc. I've brushed on 3 coats of 1.5# cut and sprayed 4 coats of 1# cut w/o problems - or at least no problems for 6 or 7 years. But Scott is right; if it's too thick it can and probably will alligator given enough time. So keep it thin. And I wouldn't worry about past projects; there's nothing you can do about them now.

John

[Scott Holmes]

Difficult to say... Padded on; fours coats is not enough, brushed on heavy, probably too much.