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Thread: Cabinet-Finishing Damsel in Distress! Need Help!

  1. #16
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    It was brushed on but they were thin coats to prevent runs on the vertical surfaces.
    George

    Making sawdust regularly, occasionally a project is completed.

  2. #17
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    I would say you'll probably be OK, but you do need to spray on the final coat of dewaxed shellac so that you do not dissolve prior layers and drag some of the wax to the surface. Then you can wipe, brush, or spray on any topcoat you choose. Personally, I'd use an oil based poly in the Kitchen. My OB Poly of choice is Behlen Master-Gel Finish.

    http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/2289/polyurethanes

    "I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
    Name withheld to protect the guilty

    Stew Hagerty

  3. #18
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    Ok -.

    First off, I dislike shellac. I dislike shellac with a passion.
    Having said that,,,,,,

    There is nothing wrong with using shellac in a kitchen and/or bathroom. Do not let anyone tell you otherwise.
    Right now, there are hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of houses in this country, in every town and city, that are still "wearing" the orginal coat of shellac they wore when installed in the late 1940's and 1950's.

    Just about every house built in that era had Birch plywood, Pine face frame kitchen and bath cabinets & pine trim throughout the whole house - finished with two or three coats of Orange Shellac.

    There is simply so valid reason to do anything else to those cabinets. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    They look good - they look nice - -you are done.
    Sit back and enjoy them.

    If and it's a huge, huge, huge if - - they show premature wear (although the millions of ones out there that are still going strong after 50/60 years will disput that happening), you can always go over them with a wipe down of alcohol and a coat of dewaxed shellac.

    FWIW - I agree w/your dad about using shellac. I dislike the stuff a lot. That doesn't change the facts though.

    Is four coats to many? I used 2# cut reduced to aprox 1 1/2 cut.
    George, you're fine with 4 coats of 2#.
    The usual is 3# & 2 or 3 coats.
    Using 1 1/2#, you have about the same amount of shellac on there with 4 coats as you would with 2 or 3 coats of 3#.
    Last edited by Rich Engelhardt; 02-05-2016 at 7:27 AM.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  4. #19
    Rich, I'm curious if you have personally finished a high wear item in shellac. You've probably got more experience than I, but the tables and bowls that I finish in shellac do show scratches relatively easily. Now whether that bothers me or not is another issue, but I experience it to scratch easily.

    More pernicious is prolonged contact with moisture. I have had a plant leave a white ring on a table, and have had fruit make the inside of a shellacked bowl smudge and soften.

    On many of the cabinets that may not be an issue. But the cabinets near my stove and sink take some abuse - both wet and dry, and while it may be extrapolating on my part, I would feel more comfortable over-coating that shellac with a poly or other varnish.

    To that end, I think the bigger debateble point is that poly cannot be applied directly over a waxed shellac. Especially with wipe on oil based poly, I haven't noticed that it doesn't like to stick to waxed shellac.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 02-05-2016 at 9:02 AM.

  5. #20
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    While I wouldn't personally choose shellac as the top coat for kitchen cabinets for reasons already expressed, it's a regular part of my finishing regiment. The one thing you do need to understand is that your dad, unfortunately, is incorrect about shellac being "the softest" of finishes. On the contrary, it's actually quite a hard coating. But that level of hardness also brings brittleness as thickness increases. Shellac, however, isn't supposed to be built up to a thick finish when used correctly, so that's not normally a major issue. It's great for "handling" but for your application, it will likely not suffice for long term beauty due to the effects of cleaning, etc. Don't fret about starting with it, however...just overcoat with some de-waxed shellac and use a more detergent-durable clear coat for your final finish.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  6. #21
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    Prashun,
    More or less - yes - I have finished a couple of high wear items, one being a floor.
    My wife and I also rehab old houses and we look at dozens of houses built in the 40's and 50's that still have the original shellac finish on the kitchens and bathrooms.

    We own a couple of houses as rentals from that era also & even after all these years, the trim that's still original is in much better shape than painted trim in other less used areas.

    The OP's concern is that she put on something that won't hold up at all.
    Based on the sheer number of 50/60 year old cabinets I've seen, that's not a real concern at all.
    Even if it proves to be, there's no need to rush into anything - - especially since she says they "look good".

    Why mess with success? Why fix something that probably isn't in need of fixing? Even if it is, I'm sure it's going to hold up for a while - so - if it does (which I really doubt it), then recoat it then.

    Seriously if you want proof that shellac holds up fine by itself - just go to Realtor.com and track down some of the houses built in that time frame and go take a look at them.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  7. #22
    I am so happy about all the responses. Learning a lot here. So now I have some specific questions. But first wanted to share that I wiped the two coats of waxed Shellac on with a clean staining rag. Did so very carefully, trying to keep it even and thin. I think I did a fairly good job of it, but not perfect. I still think it looks good (should probably add "for an amateur"). I applied the coats last weekend. I don't really want to buy a sprayer if I can avoid it. I'm sure it's excellent advice and it would behoove me to have one, but I'd rather do it by hand. Also, if I spray, I would probably have to wait until Spring as our garage tends to be colder than the temp outside. I live near Denver and it's cold right now.

    Question in regards to alligatoring (Is that even a word?): If Shellac alligators under 3-4 coats of poly (that's the amount my father suggested), what happens? It splits the poly barrier? The poly doesn't stop that from happening? I apologize if I sound super ignorant here. Also, is it highly advisable that I purchase a sprayer or most likely will I be okay wiping on thin coats?

    Thanks again guys. All the advice/discussion is super appreciated.
    Last edited by Sara Gabriel; 02-05-2016 at 9:39 AM.

  8. #23
    It's funny I'm debating this, because I am usually in the camp of 'wait'. If she waits then the worst thing that might happen is that she needs to touch up some areas and then pick up where she's leaving off now, right? Ok, you've convinced me!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rich Engelhardt View Post
    Prashun,
    More or less - yes - I have finished a couple of high wear items, one being a floor.
    My wife and I also rehab old houses and we look at dozens of houses built in the 40's and 50's that still have the original shellac finish on the kitchens and bathrooms.

    We own a couple of houses as rentals from that era also & even after all these years, the trim that's still original is in much better shape than painted trim in other less used areas.

    The OP's concern is that she put on something that won't hold up at all.
    Based on the sheer number of 50/60 year old cabinets I've seen, that's not a real concern at all.
    Even if it proves to be, there's no need to rush into anything - - especially since she says they "look good".

    Why mess with success? Why fix something that probably isn't in need of fixing? Even if it is, I'm sure it's going to hold up for a while - so - if it does (which I really doubt it), then recoat it then.


    Seriously if you want proof that shellac holds up fine by itself - just go to Realtor.com and track down some of the houses built in that time frame and go take a look at them.
    This was my impression too and so my response. I grew up with shellac on cabinets, and played with toys that my father made and finished with shellac and then lived in a house with doug fir trim all finished with shellac and I know I have walked on shellac finished floors. These all held up amazingly well. The OP has already finished her cabinets. 5 or 10 years from now she can refinish, if need be, and do it "right" the next time around. In the meantime...
    "... for when we become in heart completely poor, we at once are the treasurers & disbursers of enormous riches."
    WQJudge

  10. #25
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    My dad refinished the old yellow pine floors in his house with orange shellac over 50 years ago and they still look great - except where they got walked on. The kitchen cabinets in my grand mother's house were done with orange shellac, and they looked great, too, after I don't know how many years - except where she touched them with wet/greasy hands, and then made matters worse by trying to clean them with some inappropriate cleaner.

    Any finish looks good if it never sees any abuse and nearly any finish can be ruined from mishandling. But on a scale of not durable to very durable, shellac is at the lower end. Nearly any varnish would be a better choice for kitchen cabinets.

    John

  11. #26
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    It's funny I'm debating this, because I am usually in the camp of 'wait'.
    LOL!
    I know what you mean! I'm defending shellac and I can't stand the stuff!
    It's the old story of the lesser of two evils though. The OP said she's fine with the way things look, she's just concerned it wan't last.
    It's been my experience that once you try to "improve" on something like this, it just makes it worse.
    I'm w/Sam. If it needs in in 5 or 10 years, then's the time to do it.
    My granddad always said, :As one door closes, another opens".
    Wonderful man, terrible cabinet maker...

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Gabriel View Post
    I am so happy about all the responses. Learning a lot here. So now I have some specific questions. But first wanted to share that I wiped the two coats of waxed Shellac on with a clean staining rag. Did so very carefully, trying to keep it even and thin. I think I did a fairly good job of it, but not perfect. I still think it looks good (should probably add "for an amateur"). I applied the coats last weekend. I don't really want to buy a sprayer if I can avoid it. I'm sure it's excellent advice and it would behoove me to have one, but I'd rather do it by hand. Also, if I spray, I would probably have to wait until Spring as our garage tends to be colder than the temp outside. I live near Denver and it's cold right now.

    Question in regards to alligatoring (Is that even a word?): If Shellac alligators under 3-4 coats of poly (that's the amount my father suggested), what happens? It splits the poly barrier? The poly doesn't stop that from happening? I apologize if I sound super ignorant here. Also, is it highly advisable that I purchase a sprayer or most likely will I be okay wiping on thin coats?

    Thanks again guys. All the advice/discussion is super appreciated.
    For spraying I have a nice HVLP turbine that I use for most topcoats. However I have found that, for shellac especially, I don't really need my big gun much of the time. I picked this inexpensive gun up and I must say, it does an excellent job. It has become my go-to gun for shellac.


    Tool Force A-C2 HVLP Touch-Up Spray Gun https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000EX0EYU..._fRVTwbABK5V4E

  13. #28
    Thanks Stew for the sprayer suggestion. I can certainly handle the price!

  14. #29
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    You're welcome. I thought the same thing about the price.
    It doesn't take much air either. I just have a small pancake compressor that I use for tires, to blow myself off if I get particularly dusty, my brad and pin guns, and yet it handles this sprayer with plenty left over.
    "I've cut the dang thing three times and it's STILL too darn short"
    Name withheld to protect the guilty

    Stew Hagerty

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