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Thread: Ouch--Getting Saw Stop

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    Sacramento, CA
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    2,005
    Quote Originally Posted by Charles P. Wright View Post
    I've had a 3HP PCS w/ 52" rails for a year. I upgraded from a RIDGID TS3650. My wife was very insistent that I make the upgrade. I am a computer programmer, so my hands are third only to my eyes and brain as far as making a living. I'm very happy with my purchase. The saw is a joy to use, and the assembly instructions are very clear. I have the overarm dust collector and industrial mobile base with the PCS conversion kit. The mobile base is great; it uses a hydraulic jack to lift the saw and you have full freedom of motion front-to-back and side-to-side.

    Initially, I thought that the startup sequence was annoyingly long, but at this point I just leave the saw ON all the time. I do wish they would have less expensive ZCIs; I haven't purchased one (except for the dado one) yet. For my old saw, it was easy to make them, because a nail and the existing screw was enough to hold everything.

    I have not had the brake fire, but it is relatively cheap insurance when compared to another similar cabinet saw. Whenever my wife tells people "It won't cut off your finger." I interject that it just "Reduces the risk of some kinds of injuries."
    Nice, got the same setup except the for the 36" rails. Regarding the inserts, do yourself a favor and pick up this guy and extra inserts for that: LINK
    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    Between No Where & No Place ,WA
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    1,339
    “When the thingfires the blade and the brake are toast, right?”
    --Pat Barry

    I have read ofreports that some blades can have the teeth replaced after firing. Do believe thatI saw a similar thread to this and one poster said that Forrest replaced two orthree teeth on his Forrest Woodworker blade for a nominal charge. The brake cartridge can not be re-used.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Middle Earth MD
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    682
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Shaefer View Post
    you had a pipe clamp fall 16' on your head?
    that's not helping support the logic of your arguments!
    Guys on top were using the clamp to align some walls, while they were banging around the clamp went loose and fell, I just happened to be below doing my thing and heard a 'look out', as I looked up it hit.... had a nice crescent shaped cut on the forehead and saw a few stars.
    Stuff happens and the hard hat didn't help.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Pitonyak View Post
    ....I would also look at sliders to see if their space and cost worked for you...
    I don't really compete with the SS, so don't take this as gospel, but a number of customers have told me that by the time they priced out the "industrial" version of that machine, it was in the same price range as a small slider and most folks think a slider takes up more space than it actually does. Perhaps some food for thought.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    868
    Feedback? Buy one!

    I do not have a Sawstop and it is very unlikely that I ever will.

    But if you can afford it and feel the need to have the protection that the sawstop offers, then there is absolutely no reason not to buy one.

    False trips seem to be a potential issue, but so what? It's all part of maximizing your protection from injury. Those of us who have suffered injury for whatever reason realize that the cost of damaged hardware is much less than the pain and suffering experienced when injured.

    I say go for it! The fact that you're even questioning the potential purchase is proof enough that you really should buy one.

    Buy it! Hummmmm....seems like I keep repeating myself....

    Buy one!

    Edit: just an afterthought but it seems like the consensus is that a slider is just as safe as the sawstop technology. I do not feel the need personally for a Sawstop. So I have no reason to promote that brand. But one thing I am pretty certain of is that if the worst case happens, your finger will be removed by the blade of the slider, whereas it would likely be saved by the Sawstop technology.
    Last edited by Bill Space; 02-04-2016 at 9:42 PM.
    Too much to do...Not enough time...life is too short!

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    75
    I have had the 3 hp PCS for about 4 years now. Never a single fire of the safety brake. I think true false positives are very rare. I think it fires when it is supposed to and occurs when the blade hits metal or some conductive material. I have tested very wet treated lumber and had to bypass the safety brake to keep it from firing, but it can be used in this mode and has a test mode to show if the material is too wet to cut with the safety features engaged. You do have to be aware of what you are cutting and test if in doubt, but in four years I have never tripped the brake and think the false trigger are not really false, but due to trips as designed.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Toronto Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Space View Post

    Edit: just an afterthought but it seems like the consensus is that a slider is just as safe as the sawstop technology. I do not feel the need personally for a Sawstop. So I have no reason to promote that brand. But one thing I am pretty certain of is that if the worst case happens, your finger will be removed by the blade of the slider, whereas it would likely be saved by the Sawstop technology.
    Bill, you are correct that you can saw your finger off with a slider.

    The issue however in my opinion is that we have so many injuries in North America because we don't operate table saws correctly.

    The guard should never be removed from the saw, if you can't use a guard you either have the wrong guard, or are performing an operation the machine isn't designed for. Same for riving knives and splitters, they're required on all through cuts, and riving knives can be used on non through cuts often.

    I like a slider because my fingers aren't near the blade, and the support and clamping for large pieces increases operator safety.

    Regards, Rod.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,495
    Sawstop owner here. Love it. Great saw. I have never looked back and said "I wish I hadn't spent the money."

    That said, since my purchase, I started learning more about sliders. I've written a few posts about this, but long story short, as long as you don't hand-feed your rip cuts on the slider (meaning, you use the sliding table with a jig like the Fritz and Franz one Rod posted, and your sliding table has enough stroke to do long rip cuts), I do think the slider is safer than the sawstop. Neither will cut off your fingers in this case since you either have a brake, or your hands are nowhere near the blade.

    But kickback can happen on any saw. With the slider, you're standing out of the line of fire.

    Even if you don't buy the kickback argument, and you call it a wash on safety, the sliding table makes the saw far more useful than a cabinet saw because it can do squaring cuts.

    That said, good quality sliders are quite a bit more money.

    I just raise the point to make sure you think through your decision and don't end up having the regret that I have. I'm happy with my PCS, don't get me wrong. But my excalibur sliding table attachment just isn't the same as a true slider.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    131
    I would not spend $3.5K on a Chinese made table saw myself BUT if it makes YOU feel more safe and keeps you in the shop then why the heck not? One will never remove the danger in physical hobbies - I've been bitten by angle grinders with strip and clean disks more times than I care to recall so it's about what makes YOU happy.
    My 1946 Oliver has a riving knife and a shorty style fence, as do most old iron machines of that era,I feel quite safe on this machine despite the helicopter like growl of a 14" blade.... :-). I've always felt that kickback is a bigger danger than sliding a finger into the blade.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
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    15,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    I don't really compete with the SS, so don't take this as gospel, but a number of customers have told me that by the time they priced out the "industrial" version of that machine, it was in the same price range as a small slider and most folks think a slider takes up more space than it actually does. Perhaps some food for thought.

    Erik
    Yep, this is what I found. I really hadn't considered a slider until I started digging into my ultimate SS set-up and then realized that I was in slider territory for cost! I really took a step back and a fresh look at sliders at that point. I'm not ready for a slider but if I do get another table saw, I'm almost certain it'll be a slider unless a really good SS deal falls in my lap. Until then, my 1023Z Grizzly 3 hp saw keeps on going and doing just fine.
    Wood: a fickle medium....

    Did you know SMC is user supported? Please help.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
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    Flower mound, Tx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    Bill, you are correct that you can saw your finger off with a slider.

    The issue however in my opinion is that we have so many injuries in North America because we don't operate table saws correctly.

    The guard should never be removed from the saw, if you can't use a guard you either have the wrong guard, or are performing an operation the machine isn't designed for. Same for riving knives and splitters, they're required on all through cuts, and riving knives can be used on non through cuts often.

    I like a slider because my fingers aren't near the blade, and the support and clamping for large pieces increases operator safety.

    Regards, Rod.
    Hmmmm?
    Ron,
    In high school shop I learned to properly use a tablesaw. Can you imagine a 14 year old using a huge old Rockwell 3 ph table saw that had no blade guard, no splitter, no riving knife, no instant stop technology? I've owned and operated various table saws for 40 years now and NEVER have used the accessories you claim are "required".

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Middle Earth MD
    Posts
    682
    I also 'grew up' without all of these safety devices but now I like them. Don't have a SS but I have added various hold downs, a Shark Guard a new fence and dust collection to my saw.
    I didn't particularly get them just for safety, more for convenience and accuracy as much as anything. I hate having to cleanup the shop, the dust collection helps with that. The hold downs help keep the stock aligned so my rips are more consistent and the Shark helps with dust collection and kickback (something I have experienced).

  13. #43
    I really really want a slider.

    On the other hand i have one of the original ICS SawStop's it is wonderful machine and i have used a few very nice new and old machines.

    Nice enough i dont have room for both the SawStop and a slider and i am having a hard time letting go of it.

    I work with a bunch of guys that grew up in another time when a tool was just a tool. These are guys that have cut off fingers and still think a riving knife is a waste.

    This is a crazy but stupid story and kinda unrealated but here i go. Recently our Bosch contractor table saw bit the dust, well 5 months ago. This saw was bad in of itself, the base was all cracked so when you hoged down a 2x4 or ripped a full sheet on it the saw would want to kick off the base. Jamimg it up against a outfeed table was the half assed answer to this probelm. So if that was not bad enough we ended up using the boss or foreman's 20 year old Makita. Now nothing wrong with this saw other than the fence sucks and again it has no riving knife and like a 10"x10" table and 6" blade.

    So anyway i come in last Monday after taking the week off because im sick. First order of business is to rip some 2X4's down to pack out some walls. I ask do we have a table saw. Im told yeah but the cord broke, " no big deal just hot wire it"? I think hot wire it you gotta be kidding me just go get a new saw. Anyway the end of the cord gets cut off jamed into a extension cord and held in place with the plug of a sawzall.

    Anyway i have digressed get the SawStop dont be a meat head like my co-workers!
    Last edited by Patrick Walsh; 02-06-2016 at 9:25 AM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Middle Earth MD
    Posts
    682
    Yeah, I find ripping 2x4 is best done with a circular saw and rip guide on horses, use my job site saw come trim out. Agree there are some boneheads out there.

  15. #45
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    Mar 2003
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    odessa, missouri
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Brandstetter View Post
    Okay, I will chime in with only MY thoughts.

    I too got hurt a few months back with my lathe. It wasn't a huge issue and all is well now. My surgeon was awesome and got me back to almost normal. On my last visit, to get the pins pulled out, we had a discussion about woodworking and how often she sees guys and gals like me. Without prompting, she told me that the table saw was the #1 issue she sees. I was intrigued and continued to listen.

    Her theory was that with most other tools, she said the woodworker could pull their hand back, minimizing injury and with the table saw, it pulls your hand in and down. It really got me thinking. My accident really scared me and I haven't got back on the lathe yet. I went through each tool, thinking about what she said and although I don't think it's the only tool like that (jointer, lathe), I think because it is used so much more than other tools, her thoughts from a medical standpoint are true.

    I am going to get a sawstop as soon as I can afford it. I would also replace other tools if/when this technology is applied to them.

    Again, just my thoughts, from a 50 year old with over 30 years of woodworking.
    "Her theory was that with most other tools, she said the woodworker could pull their hand back, minimizing injury and with the table saw, it pulls your hand in and down."

    Her theory is incorrect with the table saw...

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