Contributor
I leave about 4 Grrippers on my old saw. I tend to be too impatient to adjust something for one cut so I just pick the one that will work and use it. The tradeoff is the removal of the overhead guard but having the Grripper between me and the 16" blade is worth it. Dave
Contributor
Glad to hear your injury isn't severe David.Originally Posted by David Tolsky
A Gripper is no substitute for a riving knife/splitter and blade guard, please reconsider your choice.............Regards, Rod.
Member
I second that Joe. I love seeing the pictures of your shop and after that I think the second are the well restored machines Dave has and based on what I hear he has quite a few.I think he has some of those also.
I would like to see some inside pictures of the big warehouse his machines are in.
I'd love to have one of those short sliders.
Contributor
I am finding out how costly the vintage machines are Dave. Most of mine have been pretty much plug and play but still the time spent cleaning, taking apart and adjusting is surprising. Getting read to paint a couple and can see a week or two of labor for that.
Oh well, never seen a U Haul following a Hearse. Or as I always told my wife about the woodworking business. When you are on the Titanic you might as well be first class.
Contributor
I agree for most of the time. The riving knife never leaves the saw, and a sharkguard with dust collection is on for most cuts, but when the rip starts to narrow, I much prefer the Grripper with no guard to the guard and a push stick. Dave
Moderator
Grrripers are AWESOME. I love mine and feel very confident using them. I also use a Microjig splitter.
Contributor
Yes, that entry level Grizzly slider is a possibility. Haven't been able to find many review though.
I've been mostly happy with my Grizzly jointer. Great price for an 8" with carbide cutters. Besides making meatloaf of my finger tip it's been a real joy. (the injury was my own fault)
Contributor
I appreciate your comments Erik. I'm also kind of curious about SCM's approach to the US market.
SCM makes and sells sliders in the Euro markets for both industry and hobbyists/small shops, right? Similar to how Delta, Powermatic, Jet, etc. sell to industry and hobbyists here in the US.
So if sliders are commonly found in garages across Europe and SCM has a foothold in that market, do we have access to the same line of lower priced sliders? I'm guessing no, and that's puzzling.
I would think a manufacturer of sliders would look at what Sawstop has accomplished in unit sales here in the US and think, "there's a growing market for safer table saws and we have a proven solution".
From what I can see, sliders are a proven design and so putting some promotional money behind a 'new' style of saws in a market as big as the US wouldn't be that big of a risk.
Member
Ha, so in other words youre saying why arent they putting their money where their mouth is? I like it!
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!
Contributor
I'm not sure the Europeans have access to cheaper sliders. Given the strength of the dollar, we may have the best deal on them. The Europeans have a different buying philosophy. Not so much big houses, but other stuff, like cars, are bought more for performance and quality. There are some pretty nice machines there. SCM and others should educate buyers on the quality and build differences that make the extra cost worthwhile. I don't think they can build cheaper without sourcing overseas and many Euro machines do consist of Chinese parts. Some Euro machines may be more Chinese than what the buyer thinks. Doesn't make them bad, just means there won't be cheaper stuff in the future because the cost reductions have all ready been made. Dave
Contributor
Yeah, I guess that that's true. Why they aren't doing just that really escapes me.
I'm of the impression sliders are quite common in small Euro workshops, so it's a proven and established design. The US is a big market with little slider penetration in the small shop/hobby market. Spells "opportunity".
For a large company that can afford the distribution and 'educational' costs, it would seem like a logical opportunity and I can't figure out why it hasn't been taken?
There must be some market research pointing towards the US ww'ers reluctance to step away from the traditional design of a cabinet saw and our beloved jigs.
Member
One big problem that I see is that it's ridiculously difficult to get information on pricing on sliding table saws, with Grizzly possibly being the only exception. We live in the age of the Internet and easy information. I swear they would sell a lot more saws if they would make ALL the information readily available. Specs, pictures, videos, AND prices of not only the saws, but also the parts and options.
If I go to a website looking to buy an item or research something, and I'm confronted with "Request a quote", "Call for information", or "Please leave your contact information and a representative will contact you", I just go elsewhere and buy the item from someone else. I want to know it now. I want to buy it now. I don't want to have to sit by the phone waiting for somebody to call me back. Most of the time I'm out of the country and/or trying to sleep for a night shift during business hours.
I'd be willing to bet that Grizzly wouldn't sell nearly as many tools as they do if you had to call and ask somebody for a price on every little thing that you were considering. I personally spend a lot of money on tools, parts, and supplies, and absolutely none of it goes to companies that make it difficult for me to "Buy it now", online, around the clock.
Are these companies just stuck in a time capsule w.r.t. marketing strategies, or is there a reason they feel the need to control information? It's like Corporate Communism!
Contributor
I don't know anything about the home- hobby shops in Europe. At the machinery shows there are a lot of small sliding table saws in the 1200 to 1500mm length. Brands like Holzmann and even Jet have these type saw. Mafell and Festool have small push pull saws that are a little different and safer than a standard table saw.
The industrial saw companies like Martin, Panhans and Altendorf used to sell table saws without a sliding table but don't think any of those offer that anymore. I don't know about SCM Invincable. In the small and medium pro shops it is rare to see a standard saw. The above companies do make a short stroke slider usually in the 2 meter range with a robust outrigger. That is what I would have if no room for a large format slider.
The slider is not the first choice for sheet goods in Euro shops either. Small cabinet shops will have a vertical for breaking down sheets (their sheet sizes are larger) and the slider for odd & angle cuts and solid wood sawing and joinery. Bigger shops will have a beam saw for sheet goods.
Most of the sellers here do not realize the potential for solid wood with these saws.
Typically the smaller- medium shops use a power fed bandsaw for ripping and have a large format slider for precision saw cuts in solid wood. All the pro shops there usually have a small S4S machine also.
We don't use a table saw in our shop anymore. I have a old unisaw on wheels that has only been turned on a few times in the last several years. The European approach to woodworking is quite a bit different. They don't think the hands should ever be close to the blade and do not want to depend on technology to stop the blade. But you can cut off fingers on any machine no matter how safe...
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Moderator
Wow, some very nice tools in that shop, Joe!
Guest
If euros are building euro style cabinets, I'm not even sure why you'd bother owning a tablesaw. All you really need is a cnc, an edge bander, a case clamp, and an impact to mount hardware. Literally everything else can be cut and drilled on the CNC. If you need to build something other than slab fronts, that's a different story.
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