Page 5 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 116

Thread: Ouch--Getting Saw Stop

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Terrace, BC
    Posts
    519
    I worked on a SS when I was in trade school. If I were in the market for a cabinet saw, it would be high on my list of probables, less for the safety feature than for the fine workmanship evident in the rest of the saw. I found it to be a solid, robust, and capable saw - comparable to any saw in its class.

    As things worked out when I set up my shop, I went with a Felder combo machine, slider/shape/jointer/planer and don't have a cabinet saw, nor a need for one. BUT, should a need for one ever arise, SS would definitely get a close look (to clarify - it would be in ADDITION to my existing slider, not a replacement for it.)
    I love mankind. It's people I can't stand.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Haubstadt (Evansville), Indiana
    Posts
    1,294
    I bought the PCS SawStop. No injury or anything, just wanted to replace my 1980s Jet cabinet saw. I thought about a slider, however I have never seen one and was unsure if I would really like it. Also a slider was more money than the PCS. I made my decision because the consequences are enormous compared to the cost. I hope I never have to test the feature, but know even doing everything right something unexpected could happen. I have no second thoughts buying the SawStop.
    When working I had more money than time. In retirement I have more time than money. Love the time, miss the money.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Weber View Post
    The best way to not cut your fingers off is to not put them near a spinning blade. A properly used and fitted slider excels at keeping your fingers away from the blade. As a bonus, it brings a lot of extra capabilities to your shop (straight line ripping, sheet goods handling, crosscut capabilities, etc...)

    A number of people that have posted that they've sold their SS and switched to a slider, and many more that have stated that they settled on a SS (usually stated cost or small shop as their reasoning), but really wanted a slider. But, I have yet to read about anyone who's sold their euro slider and bought a SS. I'm just sayin'!
    There are some peoople on this board that sold their SS and got a slider and now they regret. Sliders are very good in many aspects but if you still want to do traditional ripping (say narrow stock) from what I have learned they are not any safer than a cabinet saw. Yes, you can do straight line rips or make all sorts of jigs but there are situations that you simply have to do a traditional rip.
    If I had the space and money I would have both.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by Pat Barry View Post
    When the thing fires the blade and the brake are toast, right? Doesn't the machine have a way to safely test the stop circuit to make sure it is working where it doesn't destroy the blade and or brake? Something that the operator could do on a regular basis to make sure it works as its supposed to?
    the brake is toast because it suicides as it stops the saw blade. The spinning saw blade has a LOT of kinetic energy. Stopping the blade involves absorbing that kinetic energy and converting it into something else. Sawstop accomplishes that by, doing the following:

    - triggering a strong spring mechanism to retract the blade below the table.
    - firing an aluminum block into the blade to stop its rotation.

    All this happens in a few thousandths of a second.

    the blade is usually toast because the heat produced in stopping the blade that quickly usually welds the blade to the aluminum block. Here's a video from a high-speed tracking camera to demonstrate:


  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by mreza Salav View Post
    There are some peoople on this board that sold their SS and got a slider and now they regret. Sliders are very good in many aspects but if you still want to do traditional ripping (say narrow stock) from what I have learned they are not any safer than a cabinet saw. Yes, you can do straight line rips or make all sorts of jigs but there are situations that you simply have to do a traditional rip.
    If I had the space and money I would have both.
    I sell as many sliders as anyone and have never personally spoken to a customer who told me that they regretted moving up from a cabinet saw to a slider but I have had a number of shops hang onto their cabinet saw once the slider arrived, and continue to use both. For dados, for example. Even though most Minimax sliders will dado, a lot of shops don't want to reset the ccrosscut fence each time they need to do that, so they just keep the slider set up for case work and the cabinet saw, for dados. This may be a non-issue for hobbyists, though.

    When a customer calls me to inquire about a sliding table saw, the very first question I ask them is, "How much sheet goods do you do?". If the answer is that they are just a hobby guy who wants to mostly build furniture and solid wood projects, I would prefer to have them buy a bigger bandsaw than spend the money on a slider. Or, the cabinet saw would be fine for him. If the guy, however, says, "I want to build a kitchen", then we continue to talk about the slider.

    A common scenario is that the customer hears about a slider but perhaps is new to ww'ing and doesn't really have a clear picture of which machines will handle their particular work most efficiently. Just doing research, that type of thing. My personal opinion is that unless you plan to do any significant amount of sheet goods, you don't need a slider. You're better off with a regular cabinet saw, good bandsaw, and jointer/planer combo. That being said, I personally wouldn't spend anywhere near $5K for a regular cabinet saw, regardless of what safety features it had. If I was going to spend close to $5K, I would just get a slider instead. There's no compromise in going "up" to slider. In other words, why spend 90% of the price of a 3/4-ton truck just to get a half-ton truck? If I need a half-ton truck, there are plenty of good options at the half-ton price point. Or, if I'm going to spend 3/4-ton money, I might as well get the 3/4 ton after all, right? Just my 2-cents as always.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    Erik, I'll agree with your take, except to say that a good quality short stroke slider is ideal for a furniture maker. They are not common anymore but a short stroke does everything a fixed table saw does and much more. I wish someone built a good quality 36-40" stroke true slider. It might take some time, but I think the market would find it. Dave

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Toronto Ontario
    Posts
    11,248
    Quote Originally Posted by Erik Loza View Post
    I
    When a customer calls me to inquire about a sliding table saw, the very first question I ask them is, "How much sheet goods do you do?". If the answer is that they are just a hobby guy who wants to mostly build furniture and solid wood projects, I would prefer to have them buy a bigger bandsaw than spend the money on a slider. Or, the cabinet saw would be fine for him. If the guy, however, says, "I want to build a kitchen", then we continue to talk about the slider.

    Erik
    Hi Erik, I would disagree with that.

    I am a hobby user who makes solid wood furniture, very little sheet goods.

    I have a small slider with a scoring saw.

    My daughter recently completed a dining room table for herself, in red oak. Michelle doesn't weigh 120 pounds with a brick in each hand, yet she was able to crosscut the top for her table with 2 fingers type of effort.

    I find the same thing, cutting a top or gable out of solid wood, the outrigger holds it up and it's perfectly square. I'm nearing retirement and aren't as strong or agile as I was, the slider really improves my safety when working with solid wood, no more trying to juggle a heavy panel or long timber.

    If I need infeed and outfeed tables the clip on tables do that for me, then I put them back on the wall where they don't get in my way, just like the outrigger.

    My small saw (49") with outrigger is the ideal machine for solid wood, far better than any cabinet saw, I know, that's why my General 650 has a new home and I have a slider.......Regards, Rod.

  8. #68
    Guys, it's all about "if's" for me. My feeling is that "if" someone wants a slider, it must at least be able to square a 48" panel. Otherwise, you just have a cabinet saw all over again, except that you spent slider $$$, not cabinet saw $$$. Assuming we are talking about buying new, not used. Or, maybe you already have a cabinet saw and read about sliders, but maybe only have a cabinet saw budget, not a slider budget. So, one option would be to buy a new slider with some short table, like 36", but for slider prices and which really does the same thing that your cabinet saw with a sled already does. "If" that is the case, then my advice is going to be to upgrade the bandsaw, first. Because every person I seem to have this conversation with (and it's the same conversation, over and over again...) never has a big bandsaw. It's always some 14" unit that they are fighting with.

    I'm not disagreeing with the idea that small (>48") sliders have their value for furniture making: When I worked for Felder, Yeung Chan was a customer of ours. He had a CF741 combo with a 48" slider (the only customer for either company I've worked for who vulontarily chose the shortest slider possible on a 16" combo machine; practically unheard-of...) and used that thing exclusively for making drawers, chair legs, and small boxes. Again, virtually unheard-of. But, Yeung didn't pay "small sliding table saw price" to be able to do that. He paid "16-inch combo price". So, the point I am getting at is that "if" someone wants to make an upgrade to their solid wood machining ability and "if" they only want the best machine to do that with, are they better off spending slider prices for a regular cabinet saw or regular cabinet saw prices for regulkar cabinet saw? And, "if" they already have a cabinet saw (as often is the case), would they get better results by upgrading to a slider or by upgrading from that 14" bandsaw to a bigger, sturdier unit? This is the scenario customers seem to come to me most commonly with.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    2,479
    Erik, just to be clear I am not saying a cabinet saw is better, not at all. Slider is better than a cabinet saw in many aspects. And I do agree that if you are doing a lot of sheet goods slider is the way to go. All I am saying is that a slider is not an upgrade in "every" aspect. It is an upgrade in "many" aspects but is the same in some aspects in that you do the operation (in this case ripping) the same. Now if safety is the factor to look at then for that very operation slider is not any safer than a traditional cabinet saw. This was rehashed in a very lengthy thread I think not too long ago.
    There was a time I would have had swapped out my SS with a slider without hesitation but now I am not sure about that especially that I do have a track saw. As I said, ideally situation is to have both.

  10. #70
    Mreza, I think we are saying the same thing in different ways. There is no perfect answer for every ww'wer, just generalities and trends.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    I think it is a mistake to believe a slider needs to crosscut a sheet of ply to be useful. I've got sliders ranging from an 18" Hammond to a 120" SCMI with most everything in between. The 36-40" sliders and the Hammond get by far the most use. The big SCMI is next, and the 78" Knapp is run the least. The problem is when needed, the length is really needed but most of the time, the short strokes are the go to machines. The easiest slider to deal with are either the 10' or the 3'. The in between sizes are the biggest compromises. I understand I'm a cult of one in thinking that. Dave

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    the brake is toast because it suicides as it stops the saw blade. The spinning saw blade has a LOT of kinetic energy. Stopping the blade involves absorbing that kinetic energy and converting it into something else. Sawstop accomplishes that by, doing the following:

    - triggering a strong spring mechanism to retract the blade below the table.
    - firing an aluminum block into the blade to stop its rotation.

    All this happens in a few thousandths of a second.

    the blade is usually toast because the heat produced in stopping the blade that quickly usually welds the blade to the aluminum block.
    There is no welding involved and not much heat. The blade simply digs into the soft, honeycombed aluminum. A little wiggled will separate the two. IME, you're usually left with a serviceable blade, though it won't be your "fine cut" blade.
    Last edited by Chris Padilla; 02-09-2016 at 12:22 PM.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Posts
    223
    To my way of thinking, the jointer's got to be the most scary machine when it comes to the potential for "pulling your hand in and down". Just the thought of such an accident gives me the willies!

    I know this thread isn't about jointer safety, but because I felt the porkchop-style guard that's so common here in North America wasn't giving me the margin of safety I was looking for, I elected to go with a European-style bridge guard when I had to add one to my vintage 16" jointer which was made in 1950. Here's the small video I had a machinist make for me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DPdTNGxVMY

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Brandstetter View Post

    Her theory was that with most other tools, she said the woodworker could pull their hand back, minimizing injury and with the table saw, it pulls your hand in and down.
    Marty Schlosser
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apexwoodworks/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApexWoodworksFurniture/
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmbvXb44CJ9t17SbHEWxJg/videos

  14. #74
    David or anyone else with slider experience, would you mind mentioning a few makes and models of some shorter sliders that would be worth keeping an eye out for - used ones?

    SCMI, Felder/Hammer are familiar names to me, as well as Minimax. The Hammer and Minimax seem to be the two more popular makes for small shops and hobbyists. I understand they're both very well made, and also seem to retain their value. I need to be searching for lesser well known small sliders. $2-3k budget.

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    I'm not the best guy to ask about newer stuff as I like old industrial. Felder used to make a short K7 slider and still makes some lighter ones, mainly the Hammer series. Minimax makes some and SCMI used to make an/SI 12 with a short table. There are a few other Euro models that are similar. I'm more into old cast iron sliders. The sliding table isn't as mooth or refined, but the builds were so good that after 50 years they can still spin an 18" blade with virtually no runout.DSCN3180.jpgDSCN2817.jpgDSCN2152.jpgDSCN2158.jpg I'd like to see some new choices. I realize they would cost more than a traditional saw but hopefully there would be enough market to justify them. Dave

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •