Ouch--Getting Saw Stop

[Erik Loza]

Regarding, "why are sliders not more popular in the states", several reasons.

First, it's been a cabinet saw culture here in the US forever. My dad, who was a contractor and industrial arts teacher for many years, would not know what to do with a slider if I gave him one. All he wants is a Unisaw or '66. I go into shops all the time who still have a cabinet saw that they modified to look like an aircraft carrier, with all sorts of extensions and outfeeds or even another cabinet saw siamesed in there and they still think a slider takes up too much space. Which is silly.

Second, the price point. It's not that sliders are getting cheaper (they aren't. Unless they're not really made in the EU...)but that cabinet saws are getting more expensive. Ten years ago, it would be unheard of to charge upwards of $5K for a regular cabinet saw.

Third, especially in regards to the hobby market, the level of exposure. How big is Europe compared to the EU? In the EU, you can most likely drive to a dealer within 3-4 hours and put your hands on something like this. For 99% of Americans, that's impossible. And with the demise of the trade shows during the recession, the other major channel for exposure (aside from the dealerships) dried up. So now, you have to rely on the internet or if you're lucky, a local referral to get to actually see one.

I agree with whoever said this a few posts back. It is hard to get sold on sliders when you can't see one. It's the single biggest challenge I face as a sales rep. Trying to explain over the phone, how something like this benefits you. And to that point, remember that if we're talking hobbyists, a good number don't have much ww'ing experience in the first place. In other words, their first machine possibly is the slider. So, not only do they not know what a slider does but perhaps, don't know what the cabinet saw won't do for them. Just like bandsaws. It's a tougher sell to get a guy who has never used a 14" bandsaw to spend $4K on an Italian machine than the guy who has owned a 14" machine and been trying to resaw with it for a few years. If that makes sense.

Erik

[Ted Phillips]

After many years of usage, I had a really bad scare with my TS a couple of years ago. I stopped using the saw, quite honestly I was afraid of it - and the table started to collect shop junk... It sat unused in the corner gathering dust for over two years. Last month, I decided that I would never be able to "get back in the saddle." I called up a buddy and traded the saw to him for a case of Guinness. (I know, I know...)

I haven't gone "full Troglodyte," but I'm enjoying my shop time more than ever. Here's how I have compensated:

1. I bought several nice backsaws and panel saws (LN, Disston) and really learned how to be a better sawyer. I also built a sawbench using one of Schwarz' plans. I can do clean accurate crosscuts and long rips consistently.

2. Upgraded to a Lenox Tri-Master carbide blade on my bandsaw. It really makes a difference...

3. I finally invested in a solid #7 Jointer Plane and learned how to use it. I can get edges and faces dead true.

In the bottom line, I always say that if you aren't smiling while you are woodworking, then you are "doing it wrong." My personal journey has led me away from the table saw. And I'm still smiling!

TedP

[Roy Turbett]

I've had my 5 hp SawStop ICS for over a year and find its made as well as the Unisaw it replaced. I bought my saw used and it didn't come with the blade guard but did have the riving knife. I had to grind a little off the top of the riving knife to get it to clear some non-though cuts but it works well with both thin kerf and standard kerf blades. You need to use a different safety cartridge for dado sets which makes setups take a little longer and I still use my radial arm saw for dado cuts when practical.

All things considered, I would still buy the SawStop ICS if I were in the market for a cabinet saw. However, from what I've seen and read, I would buy the new Bosch if I were in the market for a job site saw. I like that the new Bosch captures the blade from the side and doesn't destroy it like the SawStop and that the same cartridge can be used for standard and dado blades. I also like that Bosch has a history of licensing the technology they develop and that, if they are successful in defending against the SawStop lawsuit the technology, it will likely show up in table saws and other machines made by other manufacturers.

[Patrick Curry]

I agree. Withholding information needed to make a purchase decision frustrates the buyer. It also insinuates prices are negotiable. True or not, that will turn some people away.

[Jim Andrew]

Couple of years ago, I convinced myself that I needed a slider. Had to rearrange the shop, change the dust collection system around, and decided I had room to keep my old unisaw. So, now I am the proud owner of a Hammer 79x48, and a unisaw with the long rails. Find I use them both, but really like the Hammer for straight line ripping solid lumber. Don't use near the amount of sheet goods I used to when I did contracting, more solid wood. And the slider is great for putting together panels, and squaring them up. The nice thing about the Hammer is that there are no posts to support the sliding table, so I can move it around without throwing it out of adjustment. I do move it out a bit when cutting 4x8 sheets.

[Mike P Turner]

I'd like to have a Saw Stop but can't afford the misfires. After spending all that cash on the saw, I can't afford a new brake and saw blade if the saw were to come in contact with a stray staple in the wood. Waiting for Bosch as well.

[Erik Loza]

The Bosch jobsite saw I saw in Vegas was nice. Beefier than the SS jobsite saw. I do hope Bosch comes out with a direct competitor for the SS. Nothing against the SS (many of my owners have it and seem to be very happy with it...) but the Bosch technology does seem to offer an advantage that way.

Erik

[Harvey Miller]

I use a 'little wizard" metal detector to check questionable wood before cutting (Paul Marcel's youtube video turned me on to them). Lot's of guys haven't ever had a misfire.

I'd like to have a Saw Stop but can't afford the misfires. After spending all that cash on the saw, I can't afford a new brake and saw blade if the saw were to come in contact with a stray staple in the wood. Waiting for Bosch as well.

[chase standifer]

I'd like to have a Saw Stop but can't afford the misfires. After spending all that cash on the saw, I can't afford a new brake and saw blade if the saw were to come in contact with a stray staple in the wood. Waiting for Bosch as well.

Misfires are much rarer than SS's detractors would lead you to believe. A staple wouldn't trigger the safety anyway unless you were touching it. The whole system is based on a change in conductivity that the blade senses. If the staple isn't grounded there will be no trip. If you look into the triggers that people report you will find 99.9% of the time it was user error. Forgetting to change the setting on the miter gauge is the most common I have heard of. I tripped mine by screwing up putting it into bypass mode when cutting aluminum. The one thing I can promise you is that these things aren't popping off willy nilly.

[glenn bradley]

One of these days I am going to start a thread where I just say "Saw Stop" and see how much conversation it stirs up .

I have a Saw Stop and I find it interesting how polarizing and passionate the feelings are over this product. Like many others I can say that I would buy it even without the safety feature as it compares favorably with competition that lacks it in quality and price. The safety feature for me is just a bonus. fortunately there are a lot of choices out there so anyone should be able to find something that fits their needs in a saw.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I have a Saw Stop and I find it interesting how polarizing and passionate the feelings are over this product.

It's not the product that's polarizing.