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Thread: Waterlox Original Sealer vs. Daly's Seafin Teak Oil

  1. #1
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    Waterlox Original Sealer vs. Daly's Seafin Teak Oil

    Hi folks,

    Anyone have experience with both Waterlox Original Sealer Finish and Daly's Seafin Teak Oil? I've used the former before & really liked it, but never the latter. I'd love to hear a good comparison or contrast.

    The background is this: I'm restoring a djembe drum which in this case is made from Iroko wood, I believe. These drums are traditionally african & are usually treated with coconut oil or shea butter. The guy who literally wrote the book on djembe construction has used various products for protecting the wooden shell of the drum. He prefers to use penetrating oils applied to exterior wood, and as an example gives a "penetrating timber oil" by Intergrain (Intergrain Timber Oil). But he also mentions Teak Oil - but in the context that it's an additive placed in other penetrating oils. As far as I know there's no such thing as "teak oil" in this context - it's not an oil in and of itself (i.e. you don't squeeze teak oil out of teak like you'd squeeze olive oil out of olives). It's a marketing name used for other types of products. So taking nothing away from the author - he's extremely knowledgable about drum construction and I'm learning a lot from his book, I'd like to hear from some wood-finishing experts, too.

    Near as I can tell Waterlox & Daly's are both wiping varnishes, and from the spec sheets & MSDS's both use phenolic resins. Both also mention Tung oil, and Waterlox very clearly emphasizes this in their literature. Daly's also mentions Linseed oil on their MSDS, but Waterlox does not. Daly's says it's appropriate for outdoor applications, whereas Waterlox Original is dubbed an indoor product. So my thought is that the Daly's may give slightly better protection - though that's not my primary motivation here. I know Waterlox would protect the drum just fine.

    I'm only considering Daly's because it may have a flatter sheen (the sample in the store looked great). From experience I know Waterlox goes on glossy & cures to a semi-gloss - which was just the ticket for a dining table last year, but that's not what I want here. I'd like a satin, "in the wood" look to the finish, and Daly's claims a "low sheen". (BTW, I don't want to use a "satin" version of varnish because of its flattening agents & the tendency to streak unless flowed on perfectly - in which case it starts to look plastic-y, in my opinion. And also, this particular drum can't be rubbed from a higher gloss down to satin because of its carvings - it's not a flat surface.)

    One last thing about Daly's: I'm wondering if, because it contains linseed oil, it may have the potential to yellow more over time vs. something that contains only tung oil in its blend. But this may be negligible depending on how much linseed vs. tung Daly's contains.

    Anyway, looking for the voice of experience to chime in - preferably someone who has actually used both products.

    BTW, this drum will be used used indoors - it's not out in the elements.

    Thanks for the help - I really appreciate it!

    Steve
    Last edited by Steve Van Kirk; 02-07-2016 at 8:19 AM.

  2. #2
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    As far as sheen, Waterlox is available in Satin. The satin has some what more solids than the Sealer/Finish and would probably like more thinning to use as a wipe on finish. But Satin is challenging as a wipe-on since keeping the flatting agent evenly dispersed in difficult when the material is wiping finish thin. I can't help with specifics about the Daly's. It's apparently mostly just available in West.

  3. #3
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    Hi Steve,

    Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah - in the past I've tried wiping the Waterlox Satin onto a sample & got just the problem you described. And yes - Daly's may be primarily a west coast thing. I didn't realize until yesterday that it's made right here in the Seattle area, which is where I live.

    Anyways, thanks again.

    Steve

  4. #4
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    As I understand it, Waterlox is made with tung oil: its not a mixture of oil & varnish. So there is no oil-in-the-wood benefit to it. Correct me if wrong.

  5. #5
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    Yes Stan. All varnishes basically consist of a drying oil and a resin. Most use alkyd resin and linseed oil which is less expensive than tung oil. Waterlox is a varnish made with phrenolic resin and tung oil mixed together and heated to combine.

    "Tung Oil Finishes" are a thinned mixture of a drying oil and varnish. In other words it's thinned varnish. There is no standard for Tung Oil Finishes. It 's whatever the manufacturer wants to put into it. In general, tung oil mixtures do not have much durability and are not very protective. A real oil based varnish would be a better option.
    Howie.........

  6. #6
    From what I can read on the Seafin Spec sheet, it is supposed to be wiped on and wiped off. Everything about the literature suggests it's like Watco Teak oil, which basically applies like Danish oil. These products would be a mix of oil (either tung or linseed - it doesn't matter - and a hardening resin. You deposit enough resin in the wood to make it moderartely resistant to water, and flexible to humidity changes. But if you try to brush it on thick and leave it on instead of wiping until "damp/dry" as suggested on the spec sheet you'll get a soft, gummy surface that will not dry.

    Waterlox Original Sealer Finish, is a pre-thinned pure wiping varnish. It is only available in the 'gloss-drying-to-semi-gloss' sheen you mention. It is however, available as a low VOC formulation which I find more difficult to apply than the "original formula" Original Sealer Finish. They also make a Marine Sealer Finish, which is a pure varnish too, but is more appropriate for an outside finish, as advertised.

    The Original Sealer Finishes are not available in Satin sheen as you may infer from Steve's post; only the full strength varnish is available in satin. Confusingly, that product is also called "Waterlox Original" - but does not include the critical "Sealer Finish" suffix. The non-voc formula has a further confusing suffix: "Original Formula" to distinguish it from the VOC compliant formula. It's more clear to use TB5284 for the Original Original Sealer Finish. Vendors may not be aware of the permutations, so if ordering by phone, make sure you see that number.

    Danish Oils (if my theory is correct, Daly's Seafin is in this category) all dry to a satin sheen by virtue of not building an appreciable film.

    I suspect either will be fine on your drum.
    Last edited by Prashun Patel; 02-10-2016 at 10:35 AM.

  7. #7
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    Waterlox

    Steve,
    Below is a pic of Waterlox Original Sanding Sealer on Walnut applied with a wipe on-wipe off technique (click on it for greater detail). Is this an acceptable level of satin for your drum? If so, the application process is super easy and pretty darn protective plus it has the advantage of easy repair/recoat. If not, one can very effectively rubout Waterlox using MicroMesh pads (it seems that I keep recommending MM for rubbing out finishes to the desired sheen but it really does work well). I have used Daleys and believe Waterlox to be a far superior finish.

    BTW-I am definitely NOT a finishing guru. You are welcome to journey out to the "Quah" if you would like discuss or try samples.


    288.jpg
    Last edited by Bill McNiel; 02-11-2016 at 1:59 PM.

  8. #8
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    Bill,

    You are using one of the best wipe-on varnish made. Why waste it by wipe-on, then wipe-off. Just wipe on and leave it alone. You are using the oil-varnish blend technique... it will work but it is wasting time and finish.

    Wipe it on like the kid wipes the table at the fast food joint and leave it to dry... 45 minutes later (or as soon as it's dry) repeat. Three coats like this per day until the surface looks the way you want it. G

    ive it a week or more then you can rub it out if you want or need to "Finish the Finish".
    Scott

    Finishing is an 'Art & a Science'. Actually, it is a process. You must understand the properties and tendencies of the finish you are using. You must know the proper steps and techniques, then you must execute them properly.

  9. #9
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    Thank-you Scott.

    Your approach sounds great, I've just never been confident in applying multiple coats without waiting for a 24 hr cure. I'll try your technique tomorrow as I have a Breakfront commission for a restaurant that I was planning to use Waterlox on. Your approach will hopefully save time, money and effort.
    Last edited by Bill McNiel; 02-12-2016 at 12:27 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Seattle, WA
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    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the help & great information.

    Since the last post I've been busy making samples (see photos). Compared Waterlox Original Sealer Finish (OSF), Daly's Seafin teak oil, Crown boiled linseed oil (BLO), & Hope's 100% pure tung oil. Two woods were used: ipe scraps & birch plywood.

    In a nutshell, here's what I found:

    1. Both Waterlox & Daly's cured hard (samples shown have cured 4 wks) Knew this from past experience w/Waterlox, but didn't know for Daly's. This was one of the main things I wanted to find out. Because it cured hard, I guess Flexner would call it a wiping varnish rather than an oil/varnish blend.
    2. Sheen was similar, though Daly's was maybe slightly less glossy. I didn't build to a full film, though. Stopped a few coats short of that - kept it a little thinner. But Waterlox dulls a bit the first few months it cures, so maybe they'd be comparable after a few months - who knows.
    3. BLO & tung darkened the wood more than either Waterlox or Daly's (as expected).
    4. BLO popped the grain the best, though admittedly I didn't thin the tung oil. I did let it soak in longer than the BLO, though.
    5. Waterlox had thinnest consistency out of the can. Daly's was next slightly more oil-like but not as thick as BLO, which was next. Tung was thickest.
    6. Daly's definitely smelled more linseed-like than Waterlox, though the latter's can says linseed is also an ingredient. Noticeable difference there.
    7. Pores wept more with Waterlox & Daly's than either of the oils. And the weeping was maybe slightly worse with Waterlox. But for both varnishes I babysat the samples the first couple hours after application to remove the excess.

    If you want more details, holler. I had a much longer version typed, but it was probably TMI so I kept it brief.

    Thanks again for all the great information. I've learned a ton from you guys!

    Steve

    P.S. You can make a picture say anything you want about sheen. These were the most "honest" - the most representative of what you'd see if you looked the samples over in person.

    IMG_4440.jpg
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    IMG_4448.jpg
    Last edited by Steve Van Kirk; 03-12-2016 at 10:38 PM.

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