Page 1 of 8 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 118

Thread: Building dream shop, need clever ideas

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Courtenay BC Canada
    Posts
    2,750

    Building dream shop, need clever ideas

    Hello.

    We recently sold our house and are building a new one. As part of this, I am able to build my own woodworking shop. The zoning on the lot only allows for 985sf. So .. I'm building the shop 985 sf.

    I want as few regrets as possible.

    So far, this is what I've arranged. The shop is excavated right now. Foundation walls on the house where poured on Friday.

    (1) The shop will be 985sf .. but it has a full basement with a 7 foot ceiling height. This building is actually a 2 car garage, so the floor is engineered to be able to park 2 cars on it. My reason for going with a wooden floor are to be able to run dust collection and electrical downstairs. And to have the storage.. I will set up sharpening downstairs as well. There will be a proper set of stairs going down to the basement.

    (2) I plan on sheathing the interior walls which are covered in drywall, with 3/8" Plywood first. That will mean setting all electrical boxes at 1" instead of 5/8". The reason is for backing.

    (3) This shop will have its own 200 amp panel.

    (4) It appears the shop is going to have an 8/12 roof, with Sizzor trusses of 5/12 inside. At 27 feet wide, and with 9' walls, that should net a centerline ceiling height of just over 14'. I plan on doing the ceilings in 1x6 T+G Pine. Walls in Drywall.

    (5) The shop will have water and sewer. I plan on putting in a sink.


    What I'm hoping for is tips.. For the stuff I will wish I did.

    I have a phase converter and a 3 phase panel to install.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Kelowna, BC, Canada
    Posts
    179
    Rick,

    My.shop is similar in size.to yours - 1070 sf, though I put in an 80 sf office room netting me just under 1000 sf of shop area. Here's a few suggestions:

    - Unless the shop is right next to your house, put in a toilet.
    - Sewer or septic? If septic, have your sink drain into a dry well. Very little of what you put into a shop sink can be processed by a septic system.
    - if you use hand tools at all, have the sharpening station on the main level, right next to a sink.
    - consider using 5/8" or 3/4" plywood for interior sheathing and skipping the drywall. Not as nice a finish, though.
    - setting up a finishing room?
    - make your entry door large, like 4' x 8'.
    - are you planning on storing wood and/or sheet good downstairs? Sounds inconvenient.
    - light. Lots of it.
    - I really don't need an office in the shop. I do all my desk work in the house.
    - I surface mounted all my power, but being able to run stuff in the floor gives you the same kind of flexibility.
    - don't put the dust collection downstairs. Bags of sawdust are heavy.


    If you ever get off the island and into the Okanagan, come by for a tour.

  3. #3
    I agree with Mark that you should put in a toilet.

    I also agree that the basement idea might need some tweaking. It might be better to use that space down there for things that you won't need that often, but also won't be a huge hassle to carry up and down a set of stairs. Will the stairs to the basement be inside or outside, or both? If you put something like a compressor or a dust collector down there (which sounds like a good way to decrease noise and run lines), an outside set of stairs and a big outside door might be easier to deal with. I can just imagine an inside staircase introducing turns and tight corners that will complicate things. In general, I would arrange things so that I only go up and down the stairs every so often, and I would make it as easy as possible to get big, heavy things up and down the stairs.

    if there is ever a chance you will move, you should make sure during the construction of this building that it can be converted to a 2 car garage without too much expense. Not everybody wants a workshop, but everybody wants a garage. Make sure there is a driveway that leads to a wall where a decent garage door can be installed later without tearing the whole wall out.

    If building codes will let you use plywood as the show face of the walls instead of drywall, then that definitely increases the utility of the walls as hanging space. But, you might have to use drywall, in which case I like the interior sheathing idea.

    How are you heating and cooling? Mini-splits seem to be a good choice these days, but they take up wall space, and you have that nice basement. Maybe something that can make use of the basement space would be better.

    What windows will you put in, and where? It is a crime to build a shop above ground and not have abundant natural light.

    I disagree with Mark about the desk. I would have a space for sitting at a desk and using a computer, and a bookshelf for essential books, plans, etc. I would also make sure you can get an Internet connection out in the shop.

    if you are going to run dust collection under the wooden floor, you might as well run electrical down there, too, as you have mentioned. You might want to think about how changes in tool location will affect the floor. I like to rearrange things every so often. I would hate to have a floor that can't be easily reconfigured and repaired. Or, I guess you can just install a set number of workstations along the walls, each of which gets an electrical outlet and a dust collection connection. That would let you use a more difficult floor to reconfigure.

    Good luck! Sounds like fun.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Bedford, NH
    Posts
    1,286
    If you still have the opportunity:
    1. Re-excavate the basement to provide an 8' ceiling. 7' ceiling height limitations when handling larger work pieces & limits overhead storage.
    2. Wide walk-out basement door with ramped external entrance for wheeling in/out equipment, materials, storage, etc.
    3. Elevator for transferring materials, or large, hinged access floor panel with trolley crane for lifting/lowering materials.


    How about a sketch of what your thoughts are?
    Thoughts entering one's mind need not exit one's mouth!
    As I age my memory fades .... and that's a load off my mind!

    "We Live In The Land Of The Free, Only Because Of The Brave"
    “The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living."
    "
    Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Bloomington, IL
    Posts
    6,009
    Congrats on getting your new dream space!
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    West Granby CT
    Posts
    777
    It would all depend on the grade of the land but I plan to put in a "loading dock" when I put up a barn. I can't really find a picture of one but basically a spot with maybe a double door that you could back a pickup truck to and the tailgate would be level with the floor. Around here all the farmer's barns seem to have one. It sure would make moving lumber in, as well as machines and anything else heavy, much easier.

    You would lose the wall space at the doors. However, you wouldn't need it all that often so you could still put one of your wheeled machines there and just move it when you need access to the door.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    231
    You've got the BIG wish I had already on your list. A basement for being able to run electrical and duct work underneath right to the tools. I'd put my dust collector down there and store my lumber as well, especially if I could have stairs leading to an outside door. Nice wide stairs. I agree that stuff is heavy, but if you had wide stairs you could put in a lift or a sled of sorts on a winch to get stuff in and out.

    I'd still have room for lumber storage on the main floor where I could have the things I am working on easily accessed. Windows/doors for fresh air. At least one overhead door. Lots of lights. Air conditioning/Heat. Spray booth ventilation.

    Toilet may be unnecessary if you have a shop sink. Not to be crude.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    E TN, near Knoxville
    Posts
    12,298
    Sounds like fun! You are smart to add 3-phase. Here are some notes based entirely on my own experience building my shop. Perhaps something will apply to your situation. Also, there are some good books on building a shop in a small space.

    Can you build an outside porch or overhang without going over the sq ft limit? If so, a dry area in front of the entrance door would be nice.

    You mentioned a floor built for cars. Does that mean garage doors in the current plan? If not, I recommend (in addition to a man door) adding at least one double door to the outside to move equipment in and out. I put three in my shop and they are helpful at times.

    The first thing I would ask about planning the interior is what kind of work do you plan to do in the shop? What if interests change in the future? Pinning it down now and allowing for future flexibility can save much grief. For example, my focus areas are woodturning, some flat wood, machining, welding, and farm maintenance. I planned the placement and clearance around every tool and work area before I finished preparing the ground. I slid cutouts around on a big sheet of paper. I had cutouts to represent sheets of plywood, space needed for chairs, walking, etc. I probably had 50 pages of drawings and revisions in my notebook before I was done.

    For a small shop creative machine placement might be needed. A friend found that putting some major machines like the table saw and big lathe at an angle was a better use of space. If the shop has a garage or double door it might be opened for occasional long stock. I positioned double doors, both interior and exterior, so they would like up with my cabinet saw and can be opened if needed. I actually planned the door location after I decided on the exact tablesaw placement.

    Do you do wood turning? If so, having a sharpening station within a few steps of the lathe is a huge help.

    For the electrical service I ignored the helpful advice of all the amateur and professional electrician friends who wanted to save me money with aluminum cable and the minimum-sized conductors. My electrical run was about 250 ft and if I did what "everybody else" was doing the voltage drop with coincidental large current draws was too much for me. I did my own calculations for 3% drop at 100 amps and ran big copper even though it was expensive. This was probably overkill but I'm not sorry. Since I did all the work myself (including the trench) it was certainly cheaper than paying someone to install a less expensive service. Today I see no significant drop even when two 5 hp motors start at the same time.

    Put in an electrical panel with more spaces for circuit breakers than you think you will ever need. They get used up quickly. I like write the number of the circuit on each receptacle and light switch, both inside and on the cover.

    When wiring is complete and the walls are not yet covered, take photographs of the wiring so you can figure out exactly where the wires are in the future. You will NOT remember. Make a good diagram too. BTW, I covered my interior walls with 1/2" plywood held up with screws. This lets me easily remove a panel as needed for modifications or repairs. Also lets me hang stuff anywhere. Your building codes may not permit plywood on the walls.

    I put duplex outlets above machine and worktable height and every 4' or closer. Where I planned machines like the lathe, I added extra quad recepticals. I still don't have enough.

    At the wood lathe, big bandsaw, and milling machine/metal lathe I added several outlets controlled by a switch just for task lighting on swing arms.

    I wired several outlets in the ceiling. One is for the ceiling-mounted air filter. Others are for pull-down power cords on reels for occasional use in the middle of the shop. I hate extension cords.

    I wired more 50 amp 220 v outlets that I thought I would ever need for my little weld shop, both inside and out. One line is dedicated to the air compressor and dust collector closet.

    For shop lighting I used T5 fluorescent fixtures. Theses are switched according to zones so I don't waste a lot of power lighting areas not in use. In addition, the T5 electronic ballasts have a feature that allows switching two of the four bulbs independently. I put separate switches high on the wall for these. Most of the time just two bulbs in each fixture are sufficient light (my buddy still comments about needing sun glasses) but I can double the light in an area when needed.

    If you plan any access to the area above the ceiling you might do this: I added a light fixture in the attic space. The switch is high on the wall in the shop and has a red pilot light to let me know if I accidentally left the light on.

    A absolutely need an office area especially since my shop is about 250 from the house. In the office area I have two office cubicle style desks (the desk surface, a big shelf above, and a cabinet up high), a big easy chair, a file cabinet, a book shelf, a glass-front cabinet, and all the first aid and safety items such as extra safety glasses and dust masks for visitors. The office area also houses the video surveillance, security system, WiFi router, personal cell tower, a monitor/player for YouTube and shop-related DVDs, and the microscopes for animal health care. The video system has cameras inside and out - I can see what is going on from any where in the world where I have internet access. The inside camera can be rotated remotely. If the dogs bark at night I can check all cameras in a few seconds.

    I ran ethernet cable in a separate underground conduit for the electronics, a spare in case one had a problem or for future use. I also recommend this: while the trench is open add a second empty 2-2.5" conduit with a rope inside to pull some future cable.

    I added heat and air which makes the shop useful year around. I saved a huge sum simply by assembling and installing the interior duct work and ceiling diffusers and electrical wiring myself. I built with 2x6 walls for sturdiness and extra insulation space. I like natural lighting but I limited my windows to minimize heat loss and to maximize wall space.

    Can you add an exterior closet for the dust collector and air compressor without increasing the mandated footprint maximum? Perhaps engineer it to hang it a foot off the ground? Putting these huge noisemakers behind some sound insulated wall sure makes life more pleasant. I built a 4x8 closet but you may not be able to spare the floor space. Some people put an air compressor high on a wall. Your basement might be a good place if you can remember to drain the moisture or add an auto-drain. Since my air compressor is not in the main room I piped the air through the wall to the valves, separator, dryer, and regulator and also wired an electrical disconnect switch outside the closet. I put a double door on the closet facing away from the main shop area. I also ran air lines to outlets all through the main shop and one to the outside. I hate air lines stretched across the floor.

    When I finally get around to it, my shop will have a high shelf running all the way around the walls. This will need a step stool or a grabber to access but allows needed storage of little-used items. Cabinets are better for dust control if the budget will allow.

    One thing that has saved me a lot of trouble: electronic locks on the doors. I built my shop down by my barn. With the keypad locks I can always unlock or lock the shop without having a key with me.

    BTW, tell people I built my shop with my bare hands from clearing the ground to the locks on the doors. OK, I lie, I used tools. This saves a huge amount of money and insures everything is exactly the way I want it. However, it takes forever. Given the money, it would certainly have been done quicker given some hired help. If you are interested, here is a floor plan without the equipment placement. What I don't have is water in the shop but it is close and I plan a bath and small kitchen expansion when I save up some more cash and when I get to it. You just can't do everything the same day.

    shop_floorplan2_flat_s.jpg

    JKJ

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    SE PA - Central Bucks County
    Posts
    65,688
    Since you're starting with a clean slate, instead of lining the shop with the 3/4" plywood over drywall, why not put in a flexible French Cleat system to hang cabinetry, shelving units, tool racks, etc.?'

    Consider putting in a hinged hatch in the floor to allow easier movement of lengths of lumber from storage downstairs up to the shop and vice versa. Be sure you account for controlling humidity in that basement storage area, too.

    In lieu of a permanent finishing area, put in provisions for heavy curtains to section of an area in your shop for doing finishing work. This assumes you will be using low-VOC finishes and don't need a formal spray booth.

    Given the space you will have, if you can arrange things to have the machines more toward one end and the bench/assembly area toward the other, it will make larger projects more comfortable to work. This is something I struggle with in a small way due to some decisions I made early on for my shop as well as some things I had no control over due to the existing structure.

    Lighting, lighting, lighting...bright; daylight temp, comprehensive.

    And don't forget a security system...
    Last edited by Jim Becker; 02-08-2016 at 10:35 AM.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wilmette, IL
    Posts
    204
    If presuming by dust collection you meant to include a cyclone then you need all the ceiling height you can get. So plan that part accordingly.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Courtenay BC Canada
    Posts
    2,750
    Thanks for all the comments..

    I had forgotten about the security system. Thanks

    The shop will have an insulated 16x8 Garage door, from the outside it needs to look like a garage. The subdivision has a building scheme.

    I wanted an 8' basement floor but hit water.. Ugg.. The water-table here is pretty high ( Island ) . The shop is actually on hold for another week while I get a height variance to be able to get to 7 feet. If you hit water, a variance is a given. 2 neighbors needed it and got it .. so its simply a time thing.

    The number one reason for wanting the basement is for dust collection and wiring. Storage is obviously a bonus. All the woodworking will happen on the main floor in 985 sf. The joist are 12" OC .. and have 8 foot spans. triple 14" LVL beams ( Flush ) .. and posts.. The floor sheathing is 1-1/8" Edge Gold .. You could park a Sherman tank on it.

    My DC is a Felder RL-160 .. It won't do stairs more than once. lol .. Compressor will also need to stay upstairs as its full sized. The basement is entirely underground .. like a prarie basement or a cellar.

    There are some great ideas in these responses. I like the curtains for spraying.. Electronic locks is a done deal.

    The shop has to have 5/8" Drywall on the walls for fire. The plywood has to go underneath. but I love the french cleat idea.

    On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.

    I plan on putting a heat pump in the shop, nothing fancy, just a single outlet or a single duct creating 3 outlets. That will provide AC in the summer. Also a sound system. The shop is 20 feet from the house, The house has a 2 car garage, This shop will basically look like we have a 4 car garage. (detached) .. If I ever sold the place the new owner could work on cars, whatever he wants..

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    231
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Fisher View Post
    Thanks for all the comments..

    I had forgotten about the security system. Thanks
    Good call. I alarmed my garage/shop doors and put cameras out there before anywhere else in the house

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Fisher View Post
    On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.
    You can do a lot with a Harbor Freight AC electric winch, some pulleys and some creativity. I used to use one at my old house for a ceiling hanging sheet goods rack to raise and lower it for ease of use. I've used one to hoist a hard top off a jeep and store it and I now use one to hoist my dog box in and out of my truck and up to the ceiling. Wouldn't be hard to make a dumb waiter through a trap door if you needed one, or a lift that rolls up the edge of the stair stringers when needed. May be more trouble that its worth but for things like bags of sawdust and air compressors every once in a while it might be worth the couple hundred you'd have wrapped up in it. I always use safety chains with them as I don't trust them long term but they get the job done.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Posts
    223
    Al's on the right path, but I'm wondering why you'd stop at 8'? A 9' basement height provides considerably more utility and, my area at least, greater saleability. I also agree with providing some sort of improved handling method between the basement and main level of the shop, however I'd be looking more at some sort of trolly that rolls on the tops of the stair stringers.


    Quote Originally Posted by Al Launier View Post
    If you still have the opportunity:
    1. Re-excavate the basement to provide an 8' ceiling. 7' ceiling height limitations when handling larger work pieces & limits overhead storage.
    2. Wide walk-out basement door with ramped external entrance for wheeling in/out equipment, materials, storage, etc.
    3. Elevator for transferring materials, or large, hinged access floor panel with trolley crane for lifting/lowering materials.


    How about a sketch of what your thoughts are?
    Marty Schlosser
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apexwoodworks/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApexWoodworksFurniture/
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmbvXb44CJ9t17SbHEWxJg/videos

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Posts
    223
    Rick,

    I have a basement located shop and successfully move heavy machinery down into and out of the shop whenever necessary. Although I hired a rigger to move my 1,600 lb Felder sliding saw into the basement, I've moved in everything else myself, the largest of which was my 1,400lb 16" jointer. I should mention that the rigger used a forklift to lower the saw into the stairwell, from which I'd removed the stairs beforehand.

    Here are a few photos of how I do it, with the assistance of one other person:

    Attachment 331266
    Here's what the ramp looks like. It's fabricated from two 4X4's that lay directly on the floor of the basement and the lip of the stairwell. I keep the 4X4s from moving around by screwing them to the tops of the stairs using 3 1/2" #8 head screws. To keep the skid which the machine's base is bolted on from sliding off the 4X4s, I sister a 2X6 to the outside edges of the 4X4s. There is a 1 1/2 ton capacity chain hoist at the top of the stairs, which I'd bolted to the exterior wall.

    I set up the ramp whenever it's required, then remove it once the machinery move is over. If I would have known I'd be getting such heavy machinery when I was having the house built, I could have quite easily had the builder incorporate wider, heavier stair stringers which could have remained in place and been available at all times.


    Lowering base to skid.jpg
    This photo shows me lowering the base of my Wadkin RD 16" jointer onto the skid, in preparation for sliding it down the ramp. Once the machine has been bolted to the skid, I raise the loaded skid just enough to roll heavy pipes underneath it. These enable me to readily maneuver the loaded skid over the cement floor to the top of the ramp. I waxed the top faces of the ramp to facilitate sliding the loaded skid downwards, and once the skid is at the bottom, I use pry bars to help slide pipes underneath to maneuver it around the basement and into position.


    Attachment 331267
    Here's how things look from the garage, as I was lowering my Wadkin RD Jointer base down the ramp.

    Attachment 331268
    This is a photo of the purchaser of the Wadkin-Bursgreen 12" jointer, handling the chain hoist at the top of the stairway as that machine was being drawn upwards along the ramp.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Fisher View Post
    On the idea of an elevator. I am so interested in this idea but cant figure out how to do it cost effectively.
    Marty Schlosser
    Kingston, ON, Canada
    Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/apexwoodworks/
    Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ApexWoodworksFurniture/
    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkmbvXb44CJ9t17SbHEWxJg/videos

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,495
    After reading your post, Rick, my first thought about the basement was moisture... Especially since you and I share the same rainy climate. Then I read your second post where you say you hit water while digging.

    As such, I imagine you've already thought hard about drainage. But if the water table is high, you're going to need lots and lots of good drainage to keep that basement dry. I just went through the arduous process of installing a interior french drain and sump pump in my basement shop-to-be. Certainly tested my will. Much easier to do now than after the fact.

    So I would definitely recommend putting in a good exterior french drain, and maybe a gridwork of french drain pipes under your basement slab leading to a sump pump. For that square footage, in order to get the pitch of your piping right, you might need more than one sump pump in opposite corners. Much much easier for them to install all of that now before doing the next floor.

    I'm not sure what the current construction practice is, but maybe they can pour gravel over the whole floor, then add some thick plastic sheeting, rigid foam insulation, and then your slab. I imagine that could help keep moisture out of the slab. Even when my basement floor looks and feels dry, it doesn't pass the plastic sheet test:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm_ZUaqybug

    Also, minor point. I would strongly recommend putting your sharpening station in the work shop area, and give it a permanent area where it's always set up and ready to work. For me, I have to make sharpening super easy... otherwise I put it off. Maybe I'm just less disciplined than others though.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •