Front vise issues on thick bench

[Dave Haughs]

I have a 4" thick bench that I have my el cheapo wood river front vise on. I've had it for 6 or 7 years now. It's only recently that I've really gotten to the point of wanting to use it a lot. I've used it in the past for several things and it always made due, but now I'm growing frustrated with it. It has a lot of racking top to bottom and side to side. I know anything is going to have racking and I don't mind using spacers for side to side. But the top to bottom is annoying. I found this thread:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...-top-to-bottom

Identical issue (major gap at top when clamping leads to insecure clamping). There is a LOT of slop in this vise where the rods go through the cast base. The threads work great as does the quick release, no complaints there.

My question is.... Are they all this bad? Do I just need to taper the hell out of the clamping faces? Or are there some better, higher end, front vises that just work?

vise.jpg

[glenn bradley]

There are definitely higher end vises that work very well. There are 'vises' and 'vise hardware' and prices can be frightening. $200 is about the minimum entry fee for a higher end woodworking vise. I have used the Lee Valley versions of the one you show and they are as poor as others of that type and in that price range; a little above and below the $100 mark. As a counter-example, dad has the Rockler 12" QR vise hardware and based on quality it is priced about $100 too much.

With the situation sometimes being that you do NOT get what you pay for, you are doing the right thing by tapping into the community here. I'm sure you will get suggestions to go on a rust hunt for some quality "old-arn" (and there are some finds out there) but, that is not what you asked about. At the higher end are vises like the Wilton 78A and 79A, the Jorgensen offerings or the Yost 7WW-CA.

In the areas of vise hardware Lee Valley has some interesting offerings. I have the large twin-screw as a front vise and really enjoy the lack of any racking while clamping things even at the outer edge. How you use a vise will influence what type of vise in which position is best for you. My bench is designed for a small twin screw at the tail but, I am having second thoughts. the Veritas Quick Release Front Vise looks very nice but, would have the racking potential of any single screw vise. This is not a show stopper, just a factor in how you use the vise.

[Paul F Franklin]

When the vice is most of the way in, is there a gap between the bracket at the far end of the rods and the bottom of the bench? If so, try adding a long rub block to fill in the gap all along the rods. It can help keep the front jaw from dropping of it's own weight or from racking when the jaw is tightened on something that doesn't fill the whole jaw area. Pick the thickness to keep the rods parallel to the bench top along the full travel of the jaws.

[Dave Haughs]

Thanks for the quick reply. I had debated a twin screw as well for many reasons. My bench top where I use this clamp is a hollowish torsion box design(I may change that someday, but it's been good to me for what I do), so it would not be hard to bore out some clearance for screws. For my solid top I have another setup. This is where I do most of my work. Will probably modify this top for a end vise at some point too. That will most likely be a twin screw for ease of adaptation.

I like those you posted above. I expect to spend $200+ for a decent one. I've been looking at ones like the Yost but they say for benches up to 3" thick. I assume this is only an issue if you want the metal flush with the top of the bench and that going another inch isn't a huge issue.

That Veritas twin screw really looks like it might be the best solution for me, I'll do some more reading on it and thinking.

[Dave Haughs]

are you referring to under the bench toward the back of the bracket?

[glenn bradley]

are you referring to under the bench toward the back of the bracket?

Sorry to butt in. I believe he is. Here's mine:

TNNW (38).jpg . TNNW (39).jpg . TNNW (42).jpg

[Dave Haughs]

Sorry to butt in. I believe he is. Here's mine:

TNNW (38).jpg . TNNW (39).jpg . TNNW (42).jpg

I think you are right. I'll play with it this weekend. This might be the best solution until I'm ready to rework the top a bit into more of a traditional top (read this as "when I'm caught up on all the things I've promised my wife"). If it works out well then I can carry that over to my son's workbench when we build his and I'll upgrade then

[glenn bradley]

(read this as "when I'm caught up on all the things I've promised my wife")

Wait . . . There's an end to that!?!

[Paul F Franklin]

Exactly what I meant, thanks for stepping in with pics! A pic is worth at least some number of words!

[Judson Green]

I canted or tapered the wood face slightly on the moving jaw just to counter any possibility of racking top to bottom. so mine (which is very similar to yours- sold by grizzly) closes on the top first but when tightened will close the entirety of the jaw.

this is what i have

h7788-4bf59aaae2d1ca729049a9b9f4d8d31c.jpg

comparing your vise to mine, i see that mine has rub bushing (for lack of a better term) that mount embedded in the face of the bench. Does yours? might make a huge difference.

[Dave Haughs]

Wait . . . There's an end to that!?!

No....no there isn't. But there reaches a point when I just can't do that next project without doing some "shop prep"

[Jake Elkins]

I was going to post a very similar question to this just this morning - I am in the pre-contemplation steps of the same problems re: top-to-bottom racking. Looking to add a quick release vise to a bench that is 4.5 inches thick. I already have a twin screw on the end, and a non-functional leg-vise that is in a process of repair.

If one wanted to have a functional QR vise, with say a 300$ budget, is there a consensus on the best route? At this price point, the Wilton, Veritas QR front vise, Jorgensen or Morgan are all options. I know this type of vise is likely to rack side-to-side with eccentric clamping, but I am most interested in eliminating racking top-to-bottom, just as the OP has pointed out. Hoping to be able to use with dog holes. Thinning the bench is not an option. Thoughts?

[glenn bradley]

Thinning the bench is not an option. Thoughts?

Hog out for the vise. I have done this and at the time it seemed like an overly involved solution. In practice, flipping the top, marking it out and hogging the required area with a router was not bad.

[Todd Davidson]

I was recently helping a buddy install a second vise on his bench. He had narrowed his choices for a QR vise down to the Eclipse (made in India - Record clone - rumored to be made from the came castings as the venerable Record 52) Available from Amazon:http://www.amazon.com/Eclipse-EWWQR1.../dp/B004OCH206
He ended up going with his other choice - US Made 10" Milwaukee QR Vise from toolsforwoodworking.com: (https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/...tem/MS-VISE.XX). The Milwaukee is one nice vise.

[Jake Elkins]

Hog out for the vise. I have done this and at the time it seemed like an overly involved solution. In practice, flipping the top, marking it out and hogging the required area with a router was not bad.

Reservations about hogging out a huge chunk of my workbench notwithstanding, is there any opinion regarding choosing the veritas QR front vise versus something like the Morgan vise from tollsforworkingwood? Again, I would like the ability to use the dog for work holding and the convience of a QR feature. Would a steel vise inherently withstand vertical racking tendencies better than the veritas option?