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Thread: Question about shaper knives

  1. #1
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    Question about shaper knives

    Just acquired a used shaper. Getting familiar with ins and out before I start using it. Began looking at various suppliers that sell shaper knives and I see that some of them are designed to be run with finished side down and some with finished side up. In the router table world I'm familiar with it's always finished side down. Is there some simple reason I'm missing for the variance in shaper knives?

    Also, who is your favorite and most cost effective supplier of choice?

    Thanks in advance for your ideas!
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    Jim Mackell
    Arundel, ME

  2. #2
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    rebate.PNGgroover.PNGEuroblock.PNG

    Hi Jim, for a new user I would suggest the following

    1) carbide insert rebate head, 125 X 50mm, useful for rebates, tenons, pattern copying

    2) an adjustable groover insert again maybe 150 to 180mm diameter with a 4 to 20mm width range

    4) a 40mm Euroblock head with chip limiters, the steel body version with a 100mm cutting circle.

    The Euroblock is very useful for solid wood, cost is $40 bucks approximately for knives/limiters.

    Shaper cutters can be used "upside down" because shapers can have forward and reverse spindle rotation. This is useful for feeding work in the other direction due to grain changes, or for other work so you can run the cutter above or below the work. Below is the safest, however there are times you need to do otherwise.

    This book is the best by far for shaper operation.
    http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Moulde.../dp/0854421505

    This video is long, however it has some great shaper operation sequences
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV8A3XK3R0I

    Regards, Rod.
    Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 02-13-2016 at 5:25 PM. Reason: corrected sentence

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Rod Sheridan;2529338]

    <BLOCKQUOTE>
    This book is the best by far for shaper operation.
    http://www.amazon.com/Spindle-Moulde.../dp/0854421505
    </BLOCKQUOTE>

    I bought the book but was very disappointed in it. Two reasons:

    1) the current edition is largely focused on commercial operations. If you want to hire people with limited experience to run a shaper eight hours
    a day, this is the right book. It may be that earlier editions were more informative about using the thing in woodworking and less focused on using shapers in a business but if you want to be the guy who uses his personal shaper for a few minutes once a week this edition is pretty useless.

    2) I bought my shaper used (it's a late 90s craftex./grizzly that looks like an 80s Delta - great machine, lots of power, very stable - but this book broadly assumes much more modern gear with Euro-style operational and safety features.

    --
    Unfortunatetly I can't recommend a good choice because I have not found one. Lots of books on router tricks etc have useful information, so do the older Delta/grizzly manuals and the articles google can find you on working with them, but I have not found a clean, consistent information source applicable to the type of machine I have and the type of work I need it for.

  4. #4
    Jim, Rod's suggestions are good. Two rabbeting heads of the same diameter will allow you to cut tenons. For square edge pattern shaping Amana makes a nice insert cutterhead with matching diameter bearing. For moulded edge curved work lock-edge cutterheads with an integral bearing are quite useful. Brazed carbide heads are less expensive but lose diameter with sharpening. Insert heads are definitely the way to go for production and repeatable setups. There are many stock knives available for the Euro blocks, and you can get blanks to grind your own if so inclined. For non-stock profiles custom hss knives in corrugated cutterheads are a good solution. You will find that over time your tooling costs eclipse the cost of the machine.

    I like Connecticut Saw and Tool for custom grinding and sharpening, and they sell stock tooling as well. Amana has some good values in insert cutterheads and small diameter brazed tooling,and Tools Today is a good source for that line. Freeborn is a well-respected manufacturer of shaper tooling also, but there are many others. Charles G. G . Schmidt is a good source for shaper supplies like corrugated and lock-edge cutterheads, shims,etc.

    My 1986 edition of Stephenson's "Shaper Handbook" is the best text I have seen on shaper operation. I can't comment on the newer edition. There is a fairly useful book also entitled "Shaper Handbook" by Cliffe, et al, and the Delta publication "Getting the Most Out of Your Shaper", if available, is helpful though dated and oriented toward old style stock Delta cutters. There are many useful threads on shaper operations in the archives both here and at Woodweb.

    The shaper is one of the most useful machines in the small shop for edge shaping, tenoning and curved work, but it is also one of the most dangerous. If there is an experienced user near you with all his fingers who is willing to provide some personal instruction, it would be worth pursuing. A shaper is in principle like a router table, in practice the available power and larger diameter tooling make the consequences of a poorly thought out operation far more hazardous. A power feeder can take a good deal of the exposure away if set up properly, but it is always important to check for fence clearances, proper rotation, all adjustments locked down before running a workpiece. Ask yourself,"What's the worst thing that can happen?" and plan to avoid it. Be aware of what (who) is in the kickback zone.
    Last edited by Kevin Jenness; 02-14-2016 at 8:01 AM.

  5. #5
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    I'll 3rd Rods suggestions, though I'm trying to find a grooving setup with that much of a range myself.

    You didn't mention what size of shaper you have?

    Amana heads and cmt knives seem to be the best value i've Been able to find. The euro block setup is great for the extensive selection of profiles and inexpensive the knives are.


  6. #6
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    you should tell us how big your machine is, easier to recommend tooling....
    I'll double up on Kevin's post, all good info. For a new user, I'd recommend looking into the carbide brazed tooling- easiest to set up and will last through quite a few feet of lumber and composites. Don't worry about losing diameter to sharpening, it'll take more than a few to make much difference. A good corrugated head purchased through CTS&T or from Schmidt is a good investment as you can get into the world of custom profiles and they can be carbide if needed.There are many stock profiles also. Lockedge tooling is being phased out as it uses bevel edge steel, needs to (should) be set with a dial indicator and places like Schmidt won't sell it to new users anymore.
    Cliffe and Holtz's 'Shaper Handbook' is a good reference for getting started.

  7. #7
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    Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. The machine is a gently used General 40-250M1 3 hp in excellent condition. It's painfully obvious to me I need to do a lot of research and learning. Kevin, your remark, "If there is an experienced user near you with all his fingers who is willing to provide some personal instruction" is absolutley the course of action I'm going to be following. I do have such a friend and will be taking full advantage of his knowledge before going too far.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Jim Mackell
    Arundel, ME

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mackell View Post
    Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. The machine is a gently used General 40-250M1 3 hp in excellent condition. It's painfully obvious to me I need to do a lot of research and learning. Kevin, your remark, "If there is an experienced user near you with all his fingers who is willing to provide some personal instruction" is absolutley the course of action I'm going to be following. I do have such a friend and will be taking full advantage of his knowledge before going too far.
    I can't say I'm familiar with that model specifically, but looking at the general website it appears to be a clone of the delta HD shaper. 3/4 spindle, 2 speeds, etc.

    Looking some more at the wevsite They also offer a euro block head for it. It doesn't list the diameter but from the pic it looks like a 88mm.

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