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Thread: New small commercial shop design help sought!

  1. #46
    You promised us pictures Mr. Stahl...


    +1 on the Menards rebate. I bought all of the LP siding there, and the insulation. $18k between the two. Then there was the $6800 I spent on foam for under the slab, that one showed up the other day. I've got about $2700 coming back, that's going to go a long ways to help pay for the sheeting inside of my building.


    (edit)- BTW, have you reached the point of pulling your hair out yet? And have you come to the conclusion it's either going to be the smartest thing you've ever done, or the stoooopidest? You're just not sure which?
    Last edited by Martin Wasner; 12-06-2016 at 9:23 PM.

  2. #47
    Join Date
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    Sorry, been so busy with the shop. I can't get contractors to work on the thing--no one seems to want to work around here. Too many houses going up and not enough tradesmen.

    Yea--I have past that point. I had to install a manhole so they can inspect my waste water. Didn't see this one coming until the inspector mentioned it the day before lateral was to go in. Now, I need to wait for Neenah Foundry to provide the manhole cover as it is not standard. Big waste of money. I am the first service in this village to have this requirement.

    You are further along than I am on building progress. I hope to have all trusses up in the next few days. We are 24" on center with doubled trusses for firewalls. I think there is 74 trusses. They are topped, and we have to install those yet. I think we will catch-up in the next few weeks though.

    I had a new guy work today--he did great work. Maybe we are turing a corner. I hope to be weather tight in a couple weeks.

    Did you have to install a layer of continuous insulation on the exterior? It looks like I will have to wrap the building in a layer of pink foam.

    For exterior, wife and I have decided on Hardie Board. We were going to shingle roof, but I am thinking metal now that it is so cold and we can get it on quick. We'll see.

    Concrete company wants to put floor in after the holidays. I am hoping to be ready for him. I think we will.

    When I started, I wanted building done in 4-months. Looks more like I'll be setting-up machinery at about 5-months time.

    Here is a picture to give you an idea of building size. It will be 30' to the peak once the tops are on. The horizontal blocking is in increments of 4' for the sheer wall. The interior height at the peak will be just under 22'

    building and trusses.jpg

    Greg




    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Wasner View Post
    You promised us pictures Mr. Stahl...


    +1 on the Menards rebate. I bought all of the LP siding there, and the insulation. $18k between the two. Then there was the $6800 I spent on foam for under the slab, that one showed up the other day. I've got about $2700 coming back, that's going to go a long ways to help pay for the sheeting inside of my building.


    (edit)- BTW, have you reached the point of pulling your hair out yet? And have you come to the conclusion it's either going to be the smartest thing you've ever done, or the stoooopidest? You're just not sure which?
    Last edited by Gregory Stahl; 12-07-2016 at 9:39 PM.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Stahl View Post
    . Did you have to install a layer of continuous insulation on the exterior? It looks like I will have to wrap the building in a layer of pink foam.

    Nope, just tyvek wrap on the outside. I've got a 2x8 wall, I think with fiberglass insulation I've got an R29 wall. Not including the sheeting, which isn't much.


    I'm not impressed with Hardi board. They've had some serious shrinkage issues. Even worse with the Certainteed brand.

  4. #49
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    Why that truss design for a shop? looks good but it has to be super cold up there this week. Its cold here!!
    Last edited by Mike Heidrick; 12-08-2016 at 10:44 PM.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Oregon, Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Heidrick View Post
    Why that truss design for a shop? looks good but it has to be super cold up there this week. Its cold here!!
    It is not bad--I am comfortable in cold weather. We are further along than the picture.

    I wanted scissors trusses for the overhead radient heat to get as high up as possible. The tubes should be above the 16' line. I like the look of a more steep roof as well--this is only 6/12 pitch. That results in this truss.

  6. #51
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    Oct 2006
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    Bloomington, IL
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    what are you thinking lighting wise and how much of it?
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  7. #52
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    T5 or LED--havn't decided. T5 seens much brighter. I run 4-bulb T5 in my current shop and really like them. My landlord just converted to LED in his shop--it looks good too.

  8. #53
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    Might be a little tall/big for affordable LED.
    Glad its my shop I am responsible for - I only have to make me happy.

  9. #54
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    Upland, CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregory Stahl View Post
    T5 or LED--havn't decided. T5 seens much brighter. I run 4-bulb T5 in my current shop and really like them. My landlord just converted to LED in his shop--it looks good too.
    Depending on layout and intended mounting height, you will probably be best off with these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...-MVH/202193185
    They have them available in a pallet at around $77 each. I really like the 120-277v power and the ability to power 3 bulbs on one circuit and the other 3 on a second. Vary your lighting according to need. Of course, you may not have skylights where you get so little sunlight, which may factor in to the decision.

    4 bulb T5HO fixtures are the same 14,400 lumens per fixture but with the smaller area can be a bit harsh if you want to mount lower than 14-15'. Bulbs are a bit more and a bit shorter life so the costs are a bit more. Basically the introduction of the T-5 tech and the intended forcing to metric system for light caused the T-8 manufacturers to up their game and eliminate any of the initial advantages to T-5 tech except profit on the fixture manufacturing. Their are enough killer deals on fixtures like the one above to kill that advantage also. 4' T-8 is an easy change to LED bulbs when they eventually improve that tech a bit more.

    Will there be racking along the 14' tall walls so you don't want fixtures real close to the side walls?

  10. #55
    I'm not huge on the T5. The lumens are higher, but they tend to make shadows. They are also fairly inefficient compared to the new fluorescents. I never remember if that's a T8 or 12. T5's are also made to be 16' or more off the floor.

    LED just isn't there yet in my opinion.

    The newer fluorescents are quite as efficient as led but really close. And the cost is nowhere near what LED is for the fixtures and bulbs. That's the route I'm going.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Williamstown,ma
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    662
    T5's are the newest most efficient flourescent type. Remember, lower number=lower energy use. Just had my shop retrofitted from T5 and T8 fixtures to newer LED bulbs as part of the power companies mandated and incentivized program by the govt. $14-15,000 job, that I only pay 30% of.
    Greg, regarding metal roofing, be careful, go standing seam only. The screw down panels start leaking by year #5, then you have to go up, remove all screws, and replace the washers under the heads.
    Too late now, but regarding heating- the very best heat for a wood shop is radiant tube in the floor if you are going concrete.
    Most efficient as well. Cheaper insurance too because no incendiary risk from a heat burning and emitting appliance in dusty environs.
    I have had just about every kind of heat in shops, I now have radiant tube in floor- wow, just wow is all i can say.
    I just found these shop threads, so now I will go back and read from the start.
    You and Martin are going to have some pretty nice spaces in your new shops!

  12. #57
    According to a commercial electrician buddy, the T5 is less efficient.

    I second the in floor radiant heat. It's far from too late, he doesn't have a slab yet. Right now, its way cheaper to go propane, (or better yet natural gas), than an electric boiler. But, propane is hovering around a buck a gallon. A few years ago the farmers were drying hard, a train derailed, and a pipeline was shut down for whatever reason, we were getting rationed around here, and it was almost $5/gallon. Propane/Nat gas won't stay the cheapest forever, I'd consider looking into getting both boilers and switching to whatever is cheapest at the moment.

  13. #58
    I can't edit in the mobile version of the site. Grrrr. The T5 is less efficient than a T8 he said. Unless I misunderstood something

  14. #59
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    The efficiency of T8, T5, and LED can pretty much be considered to be equal. If you are using T8 or T5 properly, then converting to LED in a typical retail, shop, or warehouse environment is a scam. Of course, if you have T12 lighting then converting to T8, T5, or LED almost always makes sense. However, there are lots of variables in each technology, lots to be saved in proper use of each technology, and choosing the best technology for your use.

    Good commercial shop/warehouse T8, T5, LED will all be in the 85-95 lumens per watt range when looking at the entire fixture over a 5 year period of 40-60 hour a week use.

    In a commercial shop or warehouse, you just can't say one technology is best unless you want to say T12 Florescents with magnetic ballasts always need to go away.

    If you are having radiant heat in ceiling, will there be lights below that where they would be blocking the heat from the people?
    Last edited by Greg R Bradley; 12-10-2016 at 10:25 AM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg R Bradley View Post

    If you are having radiant heat in ceiling, will there be lights below that where they would be blocking the heat from the people?

    No, nothing below radiant heat tubes.

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