Dovetail cutting. Tools for improving results.

[Derek Cohen]

w.r.t. the Kerf Starter you might want to take set into account when sizing. A 20 mil starter for a 20 mil sawplate means that the teeth will be overlapping one or both sides at the start of the cut.

Technically correct, however I would not be too concerned about the extra 0.025" (or less) each side of the kerf. It is more likely to be add to an easier fit and the "gap" (such that it is) be taken up with glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Lenore Epstein]

The tip is a burr similar to a scraper. It is on the narrow width only. It is used like a knife against a guide like a bevel gauge or a dovetail marker. Instead of leaving a thin line, it leaves a kerf to match the user's dovetail saw at 0.020, 0.025 or 0.030".

For me it seemed like there is a lot of set up with feeler gauges and such to make the Kerf Starter work when marking from pins to tails or tails to pins.

It is also helpful for other marking chores. For a while I even considered making one. After not having one, my sawing skill improved to a point of not needing a pre-formed kerf.

Thanks, Jim. That explains the flat burnisher. I was really thinking about general marking because I have so much trouble seeing the knife line (and penciling it in only makes it less crisp).

My approach has been to improve my sawing skills to where I can make decent cuts without aids, so I practice almost every day trying to make vertical and square cuts on scraps using a marking knife to make reference lines. It wasn't until I moved all my swing arm lamps to my work area that I started to improve, probably because my wimpy eyes could finally see the lines and the board's reflection on the saw plate at the same time. Now if I can only learn to keep myself from trying to control the saw...

So I'll bookmark that Kerf Starter for future reference, but I'll see how far I can get with better lighting before buying another gadget.

[Jim Koepke]

using a marking knife to make reference lines.

There have been occasional threads on marking. One thread was all about how using a red pencil would improve ones sawing accuracy.

A knife with a thin blade makes an almost imperceptible line. One of mine is made from a piece of old saw plate. It is my mostly used for transferring cut lines when cutting dovetails.

My other two marking knives are made from an old plane blade. They leave a clear line to follow. Often after marking the lines around a piece the knife is flipped bevel down and used to remove a slice of wood along the line to make a 'knifed wall' to help with sawing.

It wasn't until I moved all my swing arm lamps to my work area that I started to improve

I made a bench dog using a hollow auger. The scrap left at the end was drilled to fit the pin at the end of one of my swing arm lamps. I have another on a stand made with a crude tripod and a piece of pipe. Getting light were you want/need it is part of the job.

Now if I can only learn to keep myself from trying to control the saw...

That can be one of the difficult parts of learning to saw well and proper.

jtk

[Patrick Chase]

Technically correct, however I would not be too concerned about the extra 0.025" (or less) each side of the kerf. It is more likely to be add to an easier fit and the "gap" (such that it is) be taken up with glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek

It should be an extra 0.005-0.008 right? (for 2.5 mil/side to 4 mil/side set). EDIT: I see, you meant 0.0025" per side (note extra 0). Yep, that's right, though a lot of makers are going a hair higher than that with set these days. My Veritas dovetails measured 3.5 mils/side (vs stated nominal of 3) from the factory, and my Bad Axe sash with 25 mil plate measures ~4.5 mils/side (left that one as-is due to different reqts).

In any case it would be the other way around - if you have a wider precut kerf that's entirely on the waste side then that would bias the saw further into the waste, and the cut would spill over *less* into the tail/pin. If anything sizing the starter for the set would lead to tighter joints.

Finally, there are several other factors that go into determining joint tightness. In the end it all comes out in the wash with enough practice - everybody evolves cutting and marking practices to get to the right end point, even if there's a fair bit of variability in how they get there.

[Lenore Epstein]

My other two marking knives are made from an old plane blade. They leave a clear line to follow. Often after marking the lines around a piece the knife is flipped bevel down and used to remove a slice of wood along the line to make a 'knifed wall' to help with sawing.

I'll try the knifed wall, but I also like the plane blade idea. The mangled original blade that came with my no. 3 smoother (which I replaced with a Hock chipbeaker and blade) would work if I could cut it down without any particularly appropriate power tools.

eI made a bench dog using a hollow auger. The scrap left at the end was drilled to fit the pin at the end of one of my swing arm lamps. I have another on a stand made with a crude tripod and a piece of pipe. Getting light were you want/need it is part of the job.

Great idea, I'll read up on hollow augurs. My cheap Ikea architect's lamps are too short and lightweight for shop use, so I'll start looking for better ones that won't break the bank, and think about how to improve the overhead light. Maybe i can attach something to the pole from my old defunct torchier...

I found the no-control idea somewhere in The Schwarz's ramblings. IMO, the fact that seeing the line and the reflection changes the outcome even though I make no effort to follow them is testament to the power of the unconscious mind.

[Jim Koepke]

Home Depot has T-8 four foot fluorescent fixtures. My recollection is they are sold without the lamps. Home Depot also has four foot direct replacement LED lamps. I am not sure if the prices will be the same in all location, but my recollection is currently the whole deal could be had for $50-$60.

It is a plug in fixture and has a pull chain switch.

I think Costco has a fixture with LED lights. I was going to get one of those, but they were sold out when I needed some fixtures.

Other retailers who carry lighting will likely have other options.

jtk

[Edwin Santos]

If you have cordless tools from any of the major manufacturers, chances are they have a portable worklight that is an accessory in their ecosystem.

I recently bought the Makita LED worklight which is compatible with the batteries for my existing drills. I didn't buy it with dovetailing in mind but it has been a great add when doing so because I can move it about and the head articulates in any direction so you can throw directional light as you please. This is especially useful for vertical paring with the tail or pin board in the vise and you need to pare inside the socket baselines and corners. If you cut narrow pins, it's a real benefit to get light into the sockets for clean-out.

You might find lots of other uses for such a light if you ever work in the attic or any other dark place.

BTW, I see nothing wrong with the guides like DB's. If you're finding enjoyment and satisfaction in whatever means and methods you use, and you're happy with the finished work, that's your prerogative. David Barron recommends the Gyokucho 372 saw which is a very good recommendation. You can find it on Amazon, and it's a good value. I've never used a kerf starter so can't comment. You can wade into the shallow end of the pool and work your way toward the decision to buy more stuff in the pursuit of dovetailing as you see fit. I started out with inexpensive Marples blue chisels, a swiss army knife for marking and a $5 Zona saw. Hope this is helpful,

[lowell holmes]

I learned to make dovetails at a Paul Sellers class at Homestead Heritage. He had a template we used. I came home and made one. I still use it 20 years later.

https://literaryworkshop.wordpress.c...vetail-marker/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYpWldwGHFY

[Graham Haydon]

If you no time to practice then the guide option could be for you. If you do have some time and some motivation then choose a decent saw, western or japan style. The Veritas is a good value option as is the Gyokucho 303 if cost is important. Then it's just practice!

20170423_194054 (3).jpg

I made a firewood box a while ago, very simple affair with robust casework. I experimented with a gents style dovetail saw, dozuki, ryoba, tenon saw, hacksaw, panel saw and D8 thumb hole rip. They all worked! Although it was near impossible with the D8. My point being, any saw suited to small joinery work such as a tenon saw or dovetail saw should do the job.

I would hold off on a "kerf starter". It's a tool I've never felt a need for, nor worked with anyone who required one but clearly it has its uses for some people so I guess keep an open mind on it in the long term.

Derek, I'll mention to the guys in the shop that you developed the tape method. I've seen it done many times on hard to mark substrates in many different situations. I had assumed it was a logical workshop hack not a recent development.

[Derek Cohen]

......

I would hold off on a "kerf starter". It's a tool I've never felt a need for, nor worked with anyone who required one but clearly it has its uses for some people so I guess keep an open mind on it in the long term.

Derek, I'll mention to the guys in the shop that you developed the tape method. I've seen it done many times on hard to mark substrates in many different situations. I had assumed it was a logical workshop hack not a recent development.

Hi Graham

The Kerfstarter is one of those tools that does make it easier, but it is not necessary. If I was not gifted one, I would not be using it today. A knifed line would do much the same, just not as well.

With regard the blue tape, I doubt that there is much new under the sun. I said as much when I blogged about this some years ago now. As far as I can tell, I was the first to write about it. About 3 or so years after I posted my article and discussed it on the forums, FWW magazine published an article on blue tape and dovetails, and the author claimed to have "invented" the method.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Graham Haydon]

I'd likely be in the same boat, although it could be arrogance, stubbornness, scepticism, stingy (I like to thing of those as "experience" ) that would prevent me using one. On the rare time I need a start just a tiny notch with a chisel is enough.

Classic! I worked with a guy who though he had invented a variation of a mortise and tenon joint, if he were not my superior I would of ridiculed the claim. You present the information very well Derek, I'm naturally very wary of any claims of originality within woodworking. Let's hop the OP has enough to move his dovetailing forward.