Best way to make this

[John T Barker]

I posted this in the wrong section a few months ago and I realize this is the right place for it. I'd like to make them as gifts and I think I might have a market for them as well. In ignorance I initially thought to use a laser but the investment for those contraptions is a bit much. I've come to realize that burning the letters through standard pyrography methods with templates, painting them or iron on transfers would be the low cost/tech way to go. Can you experienced folks give your opinions on what the advantages of these methods are and any pitfalls there might be.

Thanks

barrel lid.jpe

[Joe Pelonio]

It's a perfect application for the laser, but not worth buying on just for one job. The cheapest ad easiest way is to have a rubber stamp made, but the depth of engraving is a much better, valuable look. Maybe a local member with a laser could help out by doing them for you at a wholesale rate.

[Art Mann]

Your image is quite small but it looks like something you could do with a CNC router and engraving bit. You provided no size reference but it looks like a coaster. I use a CNC router to make deep carved coasters for sale.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I remember your thread and you're going to get a lot of the same answers. Lasering is a great choice, especially if you're doing customization. Branding is the best way to mass produce. Stencil/stamp is the cheapest but could lower the potential value of the item.

My advice still is to outsource the engraving and see how it does in the market. If it does well, you'll invest in equipment. If it flops, you haven't invested thousands of dollars in equipment.

[John T Barker]

Your image is quite small but it looks like something you could do with a CNC router and engraving bit. You provided no size reference but it looks like a coaster. I use a CNC router to make deep carved coasters for sale.

Sorry about that. It's a wine barrel lid...I thought the names might give it away. They are in the neighborhood of 18"-24" in diameter. I've seen them used for wall hangings, serving trays (with handles) and lazy susans. I'm looking to make these look as close to original as possible, which were burned.

I didn't want to make an investment for a machine I'd use very rarely. My thoughts are to make them for friends, the guy I rent my shop from(which could generate sales if the price is right) and maybe market some.

[John T Barker]

I remember your thread and you're going to get a lot of the same answers. Lasering is a great choice, especially if you're doing customization. Branding is the best way to mass produce. Stencil/stamp is the cheapest but could lower the potential value of the item.

My advice still is to outsource the engraving and see how it does in the market. If it does well, you'll invest in equipment. If it flops, you haven't invested thousands of dollars in equipment.

I like the idea of burning. Can you give me a source for large letters, I'm not doing well on finding any. I agree that the stencil method cheapens it but I'm not worried about that as most of the people receiving the gifts would use them decoratively (I think.)

I'm having a little difficulty finding good sources for metal letters, stamps and stencils in variety. Are there good sources for the sign makers of the world? I'm definitely not going laser and outsourcing doesn't work in the profit aspect, AFAIC.

[Joe Pelonio]

I've been making signs since 1993 and have never done anything with wood burning, I use laser and sandblasting only for natural wood. You need a place that specializes in burning tools. Try brandingequipment dot com or similar suppliers.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I like the idea of burning. Can you give me a source for large letters, I'm not doing well on finding any. I agree that the stencil method cheapens it but I'm not worried about that as most of the people receiving the gifts would use them decoratively (I think.)

I'm having a little difficulty finding good sources for metal letters, stamps and stencils in variety. Are there good sources for the sign makers of the world? I'm definitely not going laser and outsourcing doesn't work in the profit aspect, AFAIC.

I know little about making brands. It's not really something most sign makers do. Your best bet is to find a forum that talks about branding.

My gut says that buying 5-10 laser engraved ones to start is still going to be the most cost effective way to test the market.

[John T Barker]

I know little about making brands. It's not really something most sign makers do. Your best bet is to find a forum that talks about branding.

My gut says that buying 5-10 laser engraved ones to start is still going to be the most cost effective way to test the market.

Appreciate the continued help. I don't need to test the market.
Thanks.

[Scott Shepherd]

What you are looking for, doesn't exist. You want something lasered into it, but don't want to buy a laser or sub out the laser work. Your thread title was "Best way to make this". The best way is a laser. So let's go with the cheapest way to make that.

A stencil and a can of spray paint. You can have stencils made or buy a vinyl plotter and make the stencils yourself.

Branding isn't going to work. You'll spend a small fortune on custom brands and you'll have to buy a brand every time someone wants something you don't have.

Polyester stencil, a Chinese plotter, and spray paint.

[John Blazy]

Would you be making different lids with different names, dates and litre qtys, or all the same? If different, and you plan to pursue this market, then a small laser under 5 grand might be nice, because you can do so many other things wit it, that will generally pay for itself.

If not, then have you considered making your brand? how do you think they made the original brands back in the 18th century? They wrought them by hand, and you would be amazed how easily you could learn to pound metal with nice detail using nothing but an acetylene torch and a few hammers (need an anvil or large chunk of rail road rail). Maybe even mask some steel and have the steel sandblasted to create the name - not sure if blasting can remove steel deep enough though without costing too much.

[John T Barker]

What you are looking for, doesn't exist. You want something lasered into it, but don't want to buy a laser or sub out the laser work. Your thread title was "Best way to make this". The best way is a laser. So let's go with the cheapest way to make that.

A stencil and a can of spray paint. You can have stencils made or buy a vinyl plotter and make the stencils yourself.

Branding isn't going to work. You'll spend a small fortune on custom brands and you'll have to buy a brand every time someone wants something you don't have.

Polyester stencil, a Chinese plotter, and spray paint.

I truly do not understand the attitude shown in this reply. I also don't appreciate it. If you don't agree with my thinking you might show it more politely.

No, the best way to do this is not with a laser and I am looking for input on the other methods. If you can not accept that than there is no need to respond to this thread. You can just pass it by.

[Scott Shepherd]

I truly do not understand the attitude shown in this reply. I also don't appreciate it. If you don't agree with my thinking you might show it more politely.

No, the best way to do this is not with a laser and I am looking for input on the other methods. If you can not accept that than there is no need to respond to this thread. You can just pass it by.

John, if that's what you got from it, then I apologize. You have been told repeatedly by people who have been doing this for decades what the right way to do it is. Every time you are told the right way to do it, you say you appreciate the advice but disagree.

I'm not sure how anyone's supposed to give you advice on it.

You asked for the "Best Way". Google "Wine Barrel Lid Engraving" or "Custom Wine Barrel Lid" and you'll see 100's of examples of laser engraved lids. Apparently all those people (that you are trying to reproduce) have figured out the same things you're being told over and over. LASER ENGRAVING THEM IS THE BEST WAY.

You were told that when you brought it up months ago.

You asked for the best way. We told you the best way.

In my post, I told you how to do it. Did you thank me for the advice? Nope. Did you ask any questions about what I said? Nope. I spent my time, trying to help you, then I'm called out for it.

[John T Barker]

Would you be making different lids with different names, dates and litre qtys, or all the same? If different, and you plan to pursue this market, then a small laser under 5 grand might be nice, because you can do so many other things wit it, that will generally pay for itself.

I'm not looking to make that investment in money or shop space. In addition a member here cautioned me that lasers have hazards and may not be used in my shop due to the proximity to living quarters. My thoughts were to keep the barrel capacity in liters the same, possibly change the appelation/grape and simply customize with the name at the top. For instance my shop is on an 18th century property which was originally a farm and my landlord kept the name Greenwood Farms. I would make one for him with Greenwood Farms Winery across the top.

If not, then have you considered making your brand? how do you think they made the original brands back in the 18th century? They wrought them by hand, and you would be amazed how easily you could learn to pound metal with nice detail using nothing but an acetylene torch and a few hammers (need an anvil or large chunk of rail road rail). Maybe even mask some steel and have the steel sandblasted to create the name - not sure if blasting can remove steel deep enough though without costing too much.

I'm not sure why I care how they made them in the 18th century. The metalworking that I do has to be limited as I don't like the idea of open flame in my shop. The building is way too valuable for the risk. (Have an anvil, btw.) I have found a set of letters for branding but so far I've not found the right set...upper case and lower with some punctuation (&). I'm currently not working and am facing two surgeries in the next 5 weeks. I was hoping to find a simple, effective way to do this. Letters are put on signs all the time and lasers are not the only method.

[Ross Moshinsky]

This is your 3rd post on this subject. The responses have been the same. There is no magic solution.

Custom Layouts: Laser
Mass Production: Brand
"Cheap": Stencil & Paint
Don't want to make an investment? Outsource the work.

I'm sorry you don't like your options, but these are the options available. If you'd like another set of options, you might want to try asking a different pool of users but I doubt you'll get much different answers.