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Thread: Trotec VS Epilog (yes, another thread)

  1. #1

    Post Trotec VS Epilog (yes, another thread)

    Hi,

    I know, we've got lots of threads about which one is better but most of them got the same answers:
    Choose based on support you get from your rep, Trotecs built like tanks, Epilogs are USA made etc.
    But, having two of Epilog machines (Zing and Fusion M2) I want a Trotec machine, because most of you say Trotec is so much better. But why? Really?

    I've tested the Trotec Speedy 360 before buying Fusion M2 and it cuts the files we normally cut much slower than Epilogs machine.
    The files had lots of small details and that's where Trotec had problems. For example if we run the job at 100% speed it would take 28 minutes to complete, more than 3 times longer. The same file took 8 minutes on Epilog (Mini/Helix takes about 8min 30 seconds). When we adjusted Speedy's speed to 1% it would cut the file within 11-12 minutes, still 50% longer. Do you think it is a machine, or driver's issue?
    Speedy 400 and SP500 machines are even slightly slower (close to Zing's speed).

    Another thing is a Job manager. You always have to send a file to Job Manager on Trotecs machine first, then place them on the bed and then start the job. With Epilog you can send directly to machine from Corel Draw. No need to send it to Job Manager. Epilogs job manager gives you a preview of your job and the name of your file. Trotec doesn't have previews and you've got to rename the jobs as they don't transfer files names as job names. I know might sound as not an issue but when you have 100+ jobs to run through the day, it does make a difference.

    Another thing - networking. It is very handy to have your machine connected to your network and not to one machine with USB. Not sure why Trotec doesn't have that option.

    Yes, we don't engrave much, but is it really the only benefit from having a Trotec? Faster engraving, and, maybe, longer tube life?
    I don't say Epilog is better. Every time I call their support I promise myself it will be the last my call to them - just useless. Also every day I find some new bug with the job manager and Fusion machine (Zing/Mini works just fine), Epilog says it's a "feature", not the bug.
    Are there any owners of both brands working with them on daily basis? Which one do you like the best? I hope you can convince me to buy Trotec as our next machine but at the moment I can't see that selling point.
    Last edited by Ivan Shuliak; 03-16-2016 at 12:43 PM.

  2. #2
    I'm brand new to the Trotec but I can tell you:

    -are you comparing apples and apples with speed? The Trotec tends to default at 500 DPI as per their instructions. But that's totally unnecessary in a lot of cases (like a 300 DPI file). 500 DPI will engrave twice as slow as 500 DPI. What was the Epilog engraving at?

    -did they both have the same lenses? I do 1.5" lens on my Speedy 300, it does absurdly fine detail from 600 DPI files. I can show you pictures.

    -There is a preview in Job Control, I use it all the time. It also totally shows the file name, not sure what you mean there.


    From what I can tell, the support from Trotec is vastly superior to Epilog in my region. Everyone says as much who owns an Epilog and hears about Trotec ownership experience. What's more, most of the Epilog machines around me have had part replacements that you don't tend to hear happening with the Trotecs. I don't find Job Control perfect, but man I love engraving from it. I've never had so much control over settings coming from the Full Spectrum world.

  3. #3
    Hi Raphael, we didn't compare engraving speeds or quality between them, because I'm sure Trotec will be faster.
    The most important for us was cutting and we played with settings as much as we could. I also left a file with Trotec to investigate further why Epilog takes 8 minutes to complete the job, but Trotec - 28. A day later they found that if you set speed to 1% it can do the job within 11-12 minutes.
    When you send the job to job manager can you automatically have it names as a file name? From what we've been shown, you've got to type the job name when it is being transferred to job manager from corel draw.
    Also what you need to do to see the previous? Epilog job manager just have them listed as thumbnails and it is very efficient in location the right job.

  4. #4
    1. Were both machines the exact same power?
    2. Did you actually monitor the cut order?

    My guess is the Epilog, for whatever reason, did your cut job in a logical way. My guess is the Trotec, for whatever reason, jumped around doing a little cutting here and a little cutting there. If that was the case, it will add a serious amount of time to the cut job because the laser is constantly "wasting" time moving while not cutting.

    The reality is, the two machines, if they have similar power tubes, should run similar cut times. The only reason they wouldn't is inefficient path planning.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  5. #5
    Yes, I watched the Trotec machine. The power didn't really matter because it was card and we used 10% power.
    Trotec took much longer time because... let me try to explain it somehow because if you imagine something as small as half of your nail with at least 3-5 bends on it, it wouldn't cut it smoothly from one node to another, but on the way between 2 nodes would do 10-15 moves up and down. It resulted in a line not being smooth but like saw teeth. When you put speed to 1%, it was then cutting without all those "rushed" unnecessary moves giving better quality and time
    Last edited by Ivan Shuliak; 03-16-2016 at 10:28 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Shuliak View Post
    Yes, I watched the Trotec machine. The power didn't really matter because it was card and we used 10% power.
    Trotec took much longer time because... let me try to explain it somehow because if you imagine something as small as half of your nail with at least 3-5 bends on it, it wouldn't cut it smoothly from one node to another, but on the way between 2 nodes would do 10-15 moves up and down. It resulted in a line not being smooth but like saw teeth. When you put speed to 1%, it was then cutting without all those "rushed" unnecessary moves giving better quality and time
    Trotec uses a weird scale for vector cutting. I may be slightly off on these figures but I think they recommend a max of 20% for cutting. 20% is essentially the equivalent of 100% on any other laser. So when you run at 1%, that could be the equivalent of 5% speed on your Epilog. It sounds like the settings need to be tweaked up a bit. Maybe running at 2.5% speed gets you right on the money. I don't know.

    Did you use the default settings in the Job Manager software as a starting point? That's always smart with these machines. Then you can tweak it from there to get it to cut the way you want.
    Equipment: IS400, IS6000, VLS 6.60, LS100, HP4550, Ricoh GX e3300n, Hotronix STX20
    Software: Adobe Suite & Gravostyle 5
    Business: Trophy, Awards and Engraving

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Shuliak View Post
    Yes, I watched the Trotec machine. The power didn't really matter because it was card and we used 10% power.
    Trotec took much longer time because... let me try to explain it somehow because if you imagine something as small as half of your nail with at least 3-5 bends on it, it wouldn't cut it smoothly from one node to another, but on the way between 2 nodes would do 10-15 moves up and down. It resulted in a line not being smooth but like saw teeth. When you put speed to 1%, it was then cutting without all those "rushed" unnecessary moves giving better quality and time

    Sounds like someone didn't know how to setup the Trotec correctly. On vector cutting, you will see very little difference between any machine, unless it's extremely intricate with lots of shapes and movement.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  8. #8
    Hi Scott,

    I'm happy to send you the file If you manage to squeeze at least 8 minutes from it, you'll do a big favour to Trotec as we'll definitely be looking at buying their machine then
    Job size is about A4, number of nodes 6400.

  9. #9
    Also, if you do "not optimized" vector sorting on Epilog, it will takes extra 30 seconds to complete the job (6% slower) because it will just from "here" to "there" all the time.
    Also if you don't tick "send beziers and paths to driver" in Corel Draw's settings, Epilog will take also about 28 minutes, but not because of extra, unwanted movements, but just because it will cut slower.

  10. #10
    Your file is named in CorelDraw and sent to JC. There is no need to re-type anything.
    Mike Null

    St. Louis Laser, Inc.

    Trotec Speedy 300, 80 watt
    Gravograph IS400
    Woodworking shop CLTT and Laser Sublimation
    Dye Sublimation
    CorelDraw X5, X7

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Shuliak View Post
    You always have to send a file to Job Manager on Trotecs machine first, then place them on the bed and then start the job. With Epilog you can send directly to machine from Corel Draw. No need to send it to Job Manager. Epilogs job manager gives you a preview of your job and the name of your file. Trotec doesn't have previews and you've got to rename the jobs as they don't transfer files names as job names. I know might sound as not an issue but when you have 100+ jobs to run through the day, it does make a difference.
    Not true. Select "Quick Print" and it'll send the job over and automatically start engraving instantly, without having to push a single button.

    Sounds like someone wasn't all that familiar with Job Control that did the demo for you. Post the file, I'd be happy to try it, or PM me and I'll send you my email address.
    Lasers : Trotec Speedy 300 75W, Trotec Speedy 300 80W, Galvo Fiber Laser 20W
    Printers : Mimaki UJF-6042 UV Flatbed Printer , HP Designjet L26500 61" Wide Format Latex Printer, Summa S140-T 48" Vinyl Plotter
    Router : ShopBot 48" x 96" CNC Router Rotary Engravers : (2) Xenetech XOT 16 x 25 Rotary Engravers

    Real name Steve but that name was taken on the forum. Used Middle name. Call me Steve or Scott, doesn't matter.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Shuliak View Post
    Another thing is a Job manager. You always have to send a file to Job Manager on Trotecs machine first, then place them on the bed and then start the job. With Epilog you can send directly to machine from Corel Draw. No need to send it to Job Manager. Epilogs job manager gives you a preview of your job and the name of your file. Trotec doesn't have previews and you've got to rename the jobs as they don't transfer files names as job names. I know might sound as not an issue but when you have 100+ jobs to run through the day, it does make a difference.
    Whoever told you any of this isn't familiar with Job Control. When you send the job from Corel it sends the name along with it. You can also see a preview in the job list window and you can see a WYSIWYG preview in the actually run window. You can select quick print and it will send to JC and it will run immediately.

    Another thing - networking. It is very handy to have your machine connected to your network and not to one machine with USB. Not sure why Trotec doesn't have that option.
    I'm not sure either. I have never had to use it but would be nice if it were available!


    Yes, we don't engrave much, but is it really the only benefit from having a Trotec? Faster engraving, and, maybe, longer tube life?
    I can't say from my short experience with my Trotec, but the ceramicore tubes are supposed to last much longer than the rest. Time will tell.

    I have only had two co2 machines, a GCC and now the Trotec. The GCC was a real workhorse and I only sold it because my CPA said I had to spend some money or lose it in taxes... If the new GCC machines had any of the features that the Trotec has then I would have considered them, but they didn't. The Trotec price seems to be a bit higher than the rest but when you compare exact configurations then the difference is negligible. Plus, you can always use that as a negotiating tactic. I won't say how much I paid for mine, but I can say that I am 100% pleased with the price vs. any of what the competition had to offer.

  13. #13
    Thank you Scott, I've PM you, also it doesn't show that I have any sent messages. Can you please advise if you've received it?

  14. #14
    Ivan,

    Send me the file and I will do a test on speed for you on our speedy 400.

    We cut card all day and have pretty much mastered the speed vs quality issue.

    Also if you are only cutting card, maybe a galvo would be a better investment for you for speed depending on the intricacy. To give you an idea of what we cut I have attached an image for you.

    P1018688.JPG Intricate-Creations-Laser-Cut-Envelopment-Invitation-Eternal-Close-Up-1.jpg
    Jit Patel
    London UK

    30w Trotec Speedmarker CL (Galvo) with 400mm & 250mm lens
    80w Trotec Speedy 400 with Rotary, Vacuum Table, Cutting Lamellas, 2" & 1.5" lens, Pass through
    Oki Printing Press
    Abobe Creative Suite - Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign.
    Vector Magic


  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiten Patel View Post
    Ivan,

    Send me the file and I will do a test on speed for you on our speedy 400.

    We cut card all day and have pretty much mastered the speed vs quality issue.
    Hi Jit, I've just emailed it to you. Hope you'll do some magic with settings and will be able to get good results.
    Your examples look really nice. Galvo would be great for our needs but the smallest size we do at the moment is about 10" x 12". Not sure if you can get that bed size galvo machine.
    Epilog Zing 16 - 35W
    Epilog Fusion 32 M2 - 75W

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