Trotec VS Epilog (yes, another thread)

[Keith Winter]

That's interesting. Scott what is it with the file that's causing it you think? Ivan I'll pm you. Please also send the lens size you are using and all details on the material you are cutting

[Ivan Shuliak]

Emailed.
1.5" and 2.0" lenses. Don't make any difference really.
It is card. We cut it at 41% speed on Fusion at 15% power (75W tube).

[Kevin Groenke]

If you're interested in somebody running this on a ULS (6.150D) send the file (.ai, .dwg. or dxf) and I'll try to give it a run.

-kevin

[Jiten Patel]

I can confirm the 12 minutes too. The Epilog seems much faster which is very unusual?! Any insight into this would be great as we are thinking about getting a new machine. Saying that we are probably going with another galvo (150-200w) with potentially a moving head for a larger cutting area.

[Keith Winter]

Looking at the file, it's a tree with many many branches. It's all combined into a compound path when I import it into my Illustrator 5.1 and then it appears grouped into tiny sections of the tree and one group that does the outside. Dozens of tiny sections. Curiously they are all black which is engrave on a Trotec, instead of the red I was expecting. What was this created in Ivan?

I would speculate the problem in speed has to do with all the tiny groupings, they are likely going to cause the laser to pop all over the file in tiny sections. I didn't run the file, but when I've seen this before it causes the laser to jump around on the file in Trotec Job Control. If they were all moved to one layer and then all the paths closed that should speed it up dramatically. Then again Job Control (ideally) should be optimizing the file and running it in logical (fastest) order when it runs it. My chinese laser does, it's curious that Trotec doesn't.

Steve and Jit did you come to similar conclusions about the file?

[Jiten Patel]

Hi Keith,

I ran it as it was and then cleaned up the file using some plugins (reduced nodes) and un-grouped and release all compound shapes. Slight improvement but nothing to write home about. I am still very surprised at the Epilogs performance which to me doesn't make sense. Maybe a side-by-side comparison of the file actually cut from both machines would give some insight?

EDIT: What I was getting at with the last point was to see the quality of the cut from each machine. The trotec can perform quicker with the compromise of quality which for us isn't an option.

[Matt McCoy]

I love a good drag race with data. I'm sure I'm not the only one that appreciates the time folks took to post their results.

[Ivan Shuliak]

Looking at the file, it's a tree with many many branches. It's all combined into a compound path when I import it into my Illustrator 5.1 and then it appears grouped into tiny sections of the tree and one group that does the outside. Dozens of tiny sections. Curiously they are all black which is engrave on a Trotec, instead of the red I was expecting. What was this created in Ivan?

The file is created in Corel and all the parts welded together to make sure it is one long curve.
I've exported it to AI as you've requested, but didn't change the black lines (I use them on epilog instead of red ones).
The way laser handles vector depends on drivers. On Epilog machines if you run the job without vector sorting optimisation it cuts the file within 8 minutes. If you run it with vector sorting optimisation (so it doesn't jump from point to another) I will complete the job in 7m 30s roughly. If you optimise the file itself and reduce the nodes from 6500 to 4600 (roughly), it completes the job within 6 minutes and 45s.
We could cut quicker but the quality is getting worse. 40% speed gives you about the same quality as 5% speed (all tiny cures are smooth and look nice).

[Keith Winter]

The file is created in Corel and all the parts welded together to make sure it is one long curve.
I've exported it to AI as you've requested, but didn't change the black lines (I use them on epilog instead of red ones).
The way laser handles vector depends on drivers. On Epilog machines if you run the job without vector sorting optimisation it cuts the file within 8 minutes. If you run it with vector sorting optimisation (so it doesn't jump from point to another) I will complete the job in 7m 30s roughly. If you optimise the file itself and reduce the nodes from 6500 to 4600 (roughly), it completes the job within 6 minutes and 45s.
We could cut quicker but the quality is getting worse. 40% speed gives you about the same quality as 5% speed (all tiny cures are smooth and look nice).

Ok so I think my Illustrator analysis doesn't really help the case then. The file I received had nearly 10,000 points and dozens of little groupings. Something must have been lost of messed up in translation from corel to Illustrator. It sounds like there is a definite issue that Scott and Jit saw. I trust both of their judge and analysis explicitly. Trotec needs to see the file, I think if they figure out what's going wrong here, it could have benefits for all of their customers. AND it may help them sell more lasers because they can advertise it as even faster at cutting.

[Kevin Groenke]

Hello Ivan,

I'm still willing to test the file on a ULS PLS 6.150. I pm'd you my email address.

-kevin

[Ivan Shuliak]

Hello Ivan,

I'm still willing to test the file on a ULS PLS 6.150. I pm'd you my email address.

-kevin

Hi Kevin,

Sorry about the delay. I've just send two files (standard and optimised). Interesting what ULS machine can do.

[Michael Lockwood]

Hi Keith, I note you have a Thunder laser 130 ref , would appreciate your thoughts on how good the machine is, faults and repairs needed and how long there tube last please. Reading a lot about lasers before jumping in the deep end. Kind regards Mike , from U.K.

[Robert . Payne]

I have been a big supporter of Trotec, but I would say I was very impressed with Universal's newer job control like software. I saw it last week show and I thought wow, this is very much like job control, it even had a few features I would definitely use and liked better than Job Control. Also Universal has the ability to cycle through and run jobs from the laser itself which is an advantage for repetitive jobs over Trotec. Does Epilog have the ability to scroll jobs and run them from the laser lcd screen itself like universal? If so that would be an advantage I would think.

I know your question was Epilog vs Trotec, however I would say in my opinion, it's now a closer race between Universal and Trotec, instead of Trotec vs Epilog. They all three are very nice lasers, but I think Epilog has fallen behind a bit. Trotec 1, Universal 2, Epilog 3 is how I would rate them, with universal making big gains in the past year or two closing the software gap. Epilog really hasn't closed the software gap Trotec has over the other lasers at all in my opinion. Also I see more complaints of Epilog issues on this board than Universal or Trotec. Leading me to assume (please correct me if I'm wrong) that they have more issues than Universals or Trotecs.

Curious Keith is this a new piece of software that isn't currently out on their production machines? I absolutely *hate* Universal's software but generally speaking I think all 3 of the bunch have horrible interfaces (and no shortcut keys :'().

As a software developer my dream would be any one of these manufacturers that would open source the GUI portion of their software for improvements!

[Tim Bateson]

Epilog has a very good Job Control too... I find very little use for it, so I don't.

[mike wallis]

I have a Trotec Speedy 300 (100 watt), before that I had a Epilog Mini. The Trotec is faster in engraving speed however... The software is no comparison to Epilogs. You would think that being a direct connect via USB that the Job would come over fast on the Trotec. It's slow. It's slow transferring to the job control and then slow transferring to the laser. It takes around 1-5 minutes from the time I print in Corel to the time it actually starts engraving the file. This is with the quick print option enabled. With my epilog the files would come over and ready to print in a matter of seconds. Another issue I have is the lack of direct control to adjust the power and speed while the laser is already running. I'm told it can be adjusted from the job control while running but I can never seem to get it to adjust (Maybe something I'm doing wrong). On the Epilog you can simply control the power from the laser control panel.
Lastly I'm not a fan of needing a dedicated computer to run the Laser. If the computer freezes for whatever reason then you could lose product and time. On the Epilog it's all self contained. Once the file comes over it will run even if the computer freezes. Trotec rant over...