Trotec VS Epilog (yes, another thread)

[Scott Shepherd]

The software is no comparison to Epilogs. You would think that being a direct connect via USB that the Job would come over fast on the Trotec. It's slow. It's slow transferring to the job control and then slow transferring to the laser. It takes around 1-5 minutes from the time I print in Corel to the time it actually starts engraving the file. This is with the quick print option enabled. With my epilog the files would come over and ready to print in a matter of seconds. Another issue I have is the lack of direct control to adjust the power and speed while the laser is already running. I'm told it can be adjusted from the job control while running but I can never seem to get it to adjust (Maybe something I'm doing wrong). On the Epilog you can simply control the power from the laser control panel.
Lastly I'm not a fan of needing a dedicated computer to run the Laser. If the computer freezes for whatever reason then you could lose product and time. On the Epilog it's all self contained. Once the file comes over it will run even if the computer freezes. Trotec rant over...

You need to call tech support and get that addressed. When I hit print, by the time I minimize Corel and Maximize JCX, the job is there, so we're talking seconds. If you are getting minutes, you've got something going on that needs to be corrected.

Yes, you can adjust power on the fly with the Trotec.

I've said for years that you can find a weakness in every manufacturers system and say that one does something better than the other. That hasn't changed. However, unless you do that one thing all day as your business, you need to compare the overall benefit of one versus the other. When you stack up benefits over a years time, then cost benefits start to become real and those things need to be considered. Over the years I could have easily provided you with a file that would make any of the big three show their weaknesses. The point isn't that each system has a weakness in their system, but whether or not those weaknesses get addressed when reported. Everything I've reported to Trotec has been addressed.

It is my belief that there isn't a more powerful Job Control system on the market than Trotec's JCX. I will also say that many people don't even scratch the surface on what it can do or how to use it to it's potential. You may or may not need that power in your Job Control.

[Keith Outten]

Mike,

Every file I have ever sent from my computer to my Trotec Speedy 300 went in just a few seconds. I can tell you that soon after I got my Trotec the USB cable failed and I replaced it, that's the only thing that comes to mind that may be a reason for my file transfer speeds. I don't remember the original USB cable being slow but it was too long ago. I never use the quick print option.

[Mike Null]

Mine is about the same as Steve's and Keith's. By the time I enlarge JCX the file is there. I also agree with Steve that JC has more power than msot of us will ever use. My work is pretty simple, repetitive stuff and I don't scratch the surface of what JC can do.

[mike wallis]

You need to call tech support and get that addressed. When I hit print, by the time I minimize Corel and Maximize JCX, the job is there, so we're talking seconds. If you are getting minutes, you've got something going on that needs to be corrected.

Yes, you can adjust power on the fly with the Trotec.

I've said for years that you can find a weakness in every manufacturers system and say that one does something better than the other. That hasn't changed. However, unless you do that one thing all day as your business, you need to compare the overall benefit of one versus the other. When you stack up benefits over a years time, then cost benefits start to become real and those things need to be considered. Over the years I could have easily provided you with a file that would make any of the big three show their weaknesses. The point isn't that each system has a weakness in their system, but whether or not those weaknesses get addressed when reported. Everything I've reported to Trotec has been addressed.

It is my belief that there isn't a more powerful Job Control system on the market than Trotec's JCX. I will also say that many people don't even scratch the surface on what it can do or how to use it to it's potential. You may or may not need that power in your Job Control.

I'll try giving them a call about the speed. In my opinion the job control software makes Windows 7 slower or bog down. I've installed it on two computers and after installing there was a noticeable slow down.
Another issue I have is when using the quick print feature for the first time in the morning (Job control closed). After sending to job control if all your previous jobs from the day before are not deleted job control tries to load every job onto the plate and start engraving automatically. I call tech support and they are aware of the issue. The only way around it is to make sure that all the jobs from the previous day are deleted in the job panel. It sure would be nice to bypass the job control all together, I have yet to have a need for it.

[Scott Shepherd]

I'll try giving them a call about the speed. In my opinion the job control software makes Windows 7 slower or bog down. I've installed it on two computers and after installing there was a noticeable slow down.

Two things, one, something is wrong, JCX shouldn't slow any computer down, it's not a resource hog by any means. I've never seen any performance issues. There are some things to check. One question, what engraving mode are you sending jobs over as? Black/White? Color? Also, what's the nature of what you are doing? I don't need details, but are you engraving photographs, text, large, small, two words, two thousand words? Just some general idea would help.

Second thing, why are you using quick print? It's only saving you one double click of the mouse. Not a problem using it, but you're the first person I've ever seen that uses quick print for everything so I'm a little curious on your work flow. You might be doing it the best way, or maybe we can help you find a better way.

[Mike Null]

I use Win 7 Pro. It is my all-purpose pc--books, email, Word,Excel and the laser plus 3 printers. I do not have the issue that you are describing. I believe you have identified the wrong culprit.

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, can you check something for me? Let me know what settings you are using (mode- black/white, color, photograph, etc), and also go to your local hard drive in Windows Explorer and find the "Program Data" folder. Go into that, go into "Trotec", then which ever job control version you are using "10.5.1" or whatever it is, then into "Spool". Sort the files by size and tell me what size your top 5 largest files are.

Let me know, when you get time. Of course it's possible you have no jobs in there, so we'll have to go another direction if that's the case.

[mike wallis]

Two things, one, something is wrong, JCX shouldn't slow any computer down, it's not a resource hog by any means. I've never seen any performance issues. There are some things to check. One question, what engraving mode are you sending jobs over as? Black/White? Color? Also, what's the nature of what you are doing? I don't need details, but are you engraving photographs, text, large, small, two words, two thousand words? Just some general idea would help.

Second thing, why are you using quick print? It's only saving you one double click of the mouse. Not a problem using it, but you're the first person I've ever seen that uses quick print for everything so I'm a little curious on your work flow. You might be doing it the best way, or maybe we can help you find a better way.

Hi Scott,
We engrave mostly photographs (Wood/Granite) on sizes that range between 4x6" to 18x24". The resolutions range from 333 dpi to 500 dpi when printing. For the engraving mode it's usually "Color" but at times we use "Floyd". The small files take between 30 sec to 3 min to come over to Job Control. Larger ones can longer.
For the "Quick Print" feature we use it for just that, quick printing. It is suppose to eliminate a step by needing to go into the job control. For me it's a no brainer to skip the job control since I never need to adjust anything in there. If I have 15 jobs to do that day and I "quick Print" then I've save steps and time. If there is a better way I would be open to trying.

[mike wallis]

Mike, can you check something for me? Let me know what settings you are using (mode- black/white, color, photograph, etc), and also go to your local hard drive in Windows Explorer and find the "Program Data" folder. Go into that, go into "Trotec", then which ever job control version you are using "10.5.1" or whatever it is, then into "Spool". Sort the files by size and tell me what size your top 5 largest files are.

Let me know, when you get time. Of course it's possible you have no jobs in there, so we'll have to go another direction if that's the case.

Will Do Scott. I'll go into it tomorrow and let you know.

Thanks

[Scott Shepherd]

Mike, I wouldn't use color with photograph mode. That could cause some issues like you are seeing, I believe. I'd have to test a few things but I'd make that change and try it and see if it resolves the speed issue.

I might be wrong, but that's where I'd start.

[Scott Shepherd]

Also, I thought QuickPrint sent the job over, started it running, and deleted the job off the plate when done. If that's happening, how are you having jobs left on the plate to move to the queue that get pulled back onto the plate when starting up in the morning? Are you using a combination of QuickPrint and sending jobs to the queue?

[mike wallis]

Mike, I wouldn't use color with photograph mode. That could cause some issues like you are seeing, I believe. I'd have to test a few things but I'd make that change and try it and see if it resolves the speed issue.

I might be wrong, but that's where I'd start.

Hey Scott,
I forgot to mention that we use "Standard" for the process mode. Our setting typically look like this

Process mode: Standard
Resolution: 333-500dpi
Halftone: Color, Floyd or sometimes Order Dithering

We use color mode because it is basically is a pass though (Does no Processing) to the image. This works well when you have already used an image processing software such as photograve and you do not want the print driver to change the image any further. Note that I process using an action in Photoshop which converts to a halftone image. I've found that when I use one of the other halftone settings other than "color" after the image is processed I sometimes get strange patterns in the final engraving.

This seems to work well however I'm always open to suggestions.

[mike wallis]

Also, I thought QuickPrint sent the job over, started it running, and deleted the job off the plate when done. If that's happening, how are you having jobs left on the plate to move to the queue that get pulled back onto the plate when starting up in the morning? Are you using a combination of QuickPrint and sending jobs to the queue?

That would be great if it did that and I even contacted tech support who said that it will not delete the job after it's finished. It seems like it would be a simple fix/update to have it automatically delete it after the job is done. To me it seems the Trotec software is setup for more of a production system where companies use the same files every day and not for one off items that are constantly flowing through job control.

[Scott Shepherd]

That would be great if it did that and I even contacted tech support who said that it will not delete the job after it's finished. It seems like it would be a simple fix/update to have it automatically delete it after the job is done. To me it seems the Trotec software is setup for more of a production system where companies use the same files every day and not for one off items that are constantly flowing through job control.

It used to do that Mike, that's why I mentioned it. That's actually why I never used it much, because it would run 1 cycle and delete itself. Looks like they have changed that so it doesn't delete itself after running now.

I opened JC and sent a job over with QP and it worked perfectly. It didn't pull any jobs from the queue. Sounds to me like something is corrupt, which could explain the long send times.

One thing I found years ago, when we were beta testing it was that some jobs were huge in the spool file, which would slow the processing down. We were seeing jobs that were very small end up being 100mb or more when they hit the spool file. That was some bug in the color setting. If you selected anything other than color, the file size was small, select color and some files, not every one, would get massive for no apparently reason. That was addressed before they even released the first version to the public though, and I haven't seen that issue since then. I did a quick check of my spool files and I don't see anything like that, and we use color all the time.

What version of JCX are you running? Sounds like a reinstall of the software might be due because you aren't getting normal behavior.

As far as one offs or production, I'd say we do a mix of both and haven't had any issues running 1 off jobs all day long. Maybe if we can get the QP working right and the send times fixed, you'll feel it's up for your 1 off jobs all day long.

Just to clarify, what you are seeing isn't normal by any means and it needs to be fixed!

[mike wallis]

It used to do that Mike, that's why I mentioned it. That's actually why I never used it much, because it would run 1 cycle and delete itself. Looks like they have changed that so it doesn't delete itself after running now.

I opened JC and sent a job over with QP and it worked perfectly. It didn't pull any jobs from the queue. Sounds to me like something is corrupt, which could explain the long send times.

One thing I found years ago, when we were beta testing it was that some jobs were huge in the spool file, which would slow the processing down. We were seeing jobs that were very small end up being 100mb or more when they hit the spool file. That was some bug in the color setting. If you selected anything other than color, the file size was small, select color and some files, not every one, would get massive for no apparently reason. That was addressed before they even released the first version to the public though, and I haven't seen that issue since then. I did a quick check of my spool files and I don't see anything like that, and we use color all the time.

What version of JCX are you running? Sounds like a reinstall of the software might be due because you aren't getting normal behavior.

As far as one offs or production, I'd say we do a mix of both and haven't had any issues running 1 off jobs all day long. Maybe if we can get the QP working right and the send times fixed, you'll feel it's up for your 1 off jobs all day long.

Just to clarify, what you are seeing isn't normal by any means and it needs to be fixed!

Try closing job control first. Then print using the quick print feature. Using quick print, the job control will automatically open for you (It's designed to do this). If you have jobs left in the job panel it should load all the jobs and start print every job on the plate. When I contacted Trotec support on this they confirmed that this is an issue. We try to close job control after every working day because we noticed that when left open day after day it tends to have odd issues.
The work around is to either clear all the jobs every day out of the job control or manually start job control before print your first file for the day. In my opinion it should be at the top of Trotec's list to fix.

We are using JC version 10.4.1.0. I've got a fresh load of job control on a different computer which I'll try running today if time allows. I'm hopeful that it will solve at least the printing speed issues. Also I'll do some testing between printing in color mode and alternate modes to see if it might be the culprit.

My point for the the one off jobs is that you simply do not need job control in most cases. In comparison if I printed a paper document to my ink jet printer I do not need to go to a separate print manager after selecting my print settings in the print driver. It simply prints the job. In the case of printing to the laser from corel, I see the layout and design in Corel before I print, I don't need to see it again in job control.