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Thread: Source for modern hollow and round molding plane irons?

  1. #1
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    Source for modern hollow and round molding plane irons?

    Recently I've been experimenting with learning to restore and use old, wooden hollow and round planes to make moldings. The results of been decent, but I've had to spend a lot more time than I want to fettling the planes/irons the old irons don't seem to stay sharp very long. As a consequence, I'm considering trying to make some side escarpment molding planes spurred on by the "Roubo molding planes – easy to make traditional tools" in the April edition of Popular Woodworking.


    I think I can manage the woodworking part; the dealbreaker for me as I have zero interest in buying raw 01 tool steel and then heat treating it myself as described in the article (owoo fire- very scary!).


    Does anyone know where I might be able to buy modern, already treated plane irons that might be of use for this project? The article calls for 1/8" thick x 8" long x 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2" wide irons, to build # 4 ,6, 8 H&R planes. I'm happy to grind and sharpen the necessary profiles, I just don't want to make the whole iron shebang from scratch.


    Any and all advice and suggestions are much appreciated!


    I read with great interest LV's recent announcement of adding beading profile irons to their small plow plane and their plans for a combination plane sometime in the future. These are both something I'm definitely interested in but don't know very much about.


    Thanks in advance for the help.


    Cheers, Mike

  2. #2
    Mike, I don't know of any source for already heat-treated irons. LN sells tapered molding iron blanks, and I highly recommend them, but you have to heat treat them.
    The only way you could get around HT, that I'm aware of, is to buy shot old planes that have usable irons, and repurpose those.
    My advice though: you are already a proficient toolmaker, so get over your fear of HT. For side escapement planes, all you need is a torch and a bucket of oil. Adding a few firebricks will greatly increase the efficiency of the torch. It's easy, I promise. I don't use a torch--I have a small forge--so I can't advise on specific makes/models, but I'm sure others can.
    Do you have the Larry Williams vid on making side escapement planes? If not, there's clip from the vid that shows the basic HT setup, it's posted for free somewhere, youtube probably.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  3. #3
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    I'm considering trying to make some side escarpment molding planes spurred on by the "Roubo molding planes – easy to make traditional tools" in the April edition of Popular Woodworking.
    I haven't seen that edition on the stands yet. Did the article have a source for materials? That used to be standard practice for build it articles with harder to find hardware.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #4
    You may want to try Matt Bickford. He makes planes he might sell just the irons.
    http://msbickford.com/

  5. #5
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    Matt gets his from Lie Nielsen. When he visited last year he heat treated, then tempered an iron in my back yard and kitchen oven. It was a lot easier than I would have imagined.
    Last edited by Keith Mathewson; 03-17-2016 at 7:49 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Voigt View Post
    LN sells tapered molding iron blanks, and I highly recommend them, but you have to heat treat them.

    My advice though: you are already a proficient toolmaker, so get over your fear of HT.
    +1 on both points. Mike, I'm nowhere near as good at making tools as you are but I made one using an LN iron. I just bought a MAP gas torch as the BORG. It treated just fine. (Might be beginner's luck.) But geez man, it'll be a breeze for you.

    Fred

  7. #7
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    If you really don't want to DIY, there are professional heat treating services that a lot of hobbyist and small-shop knife makers use. You would rough grind and shape your annealed irons, then send then via mail and specify HRC. Peter's Heat Treat and Texas Knifemaker's Supply are two I've heard of, though I' should clarify I've never used one of these services.

  8. #8
    Those molding plane irons were relatively soft on purpose so they are very easy to sharpen with slipstones. They would have been used to plane the very last bit of the curve after the majority of the wood was removed with rabbet planes, gouges and what else was usefull.

    This just as background info.

  9. #9
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    All of mine are old, and from the UK. Only one needed anything other than sharpening. That one had a replacement wedge in it. I don't think I've ever had to resharpen while making whatever molding I needed to make with them. The longest piece I can remember needing to make was 11 feet. I just use them to match something old that needs a replacement piece, or maybe for one piece of furniture.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Mathewson View Post
    Matt gets his from Lie Nielsen. When he visited last year he heat treated, then tempered an iron in my back yard and kitchen oven. It was a lot easier than I would have imagined.
    Out of curiosity how did he prevent decarburization? (loss of carbon near the surface during heat treatment)

    Did he use an anti-scale coat of some sort? If so do you know what it was?

    The pros use molten salt baths, vacuum or inert-gas furnaces, etc but clearly if he did it in your backyard he didn't have access to any of that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Hazelwood View Post
    If you really don't want to DIY, there are professional heat treating services that a lot of hobbyist and small-shop knife makers use. You would rough grind and shape your annealed irons, then send then via mail and specify HRC. Peter's Heat Treat and Texas Knifemaker's Supply are two I've heard of, though I' should clarify I've never used one of these services.
    Robert, I've used Peters and highly recommend them if you have volume, but if you are just doing a couple irons it doesn't make economic sense. It's something like $50 for one iron. They charge $110 for up to 20 irons, and you pay shipping both ways. Above 20 irons, it gets even cheaper.
    "For me, chairs and chairmaking are a means to an end. My real goal is to spend my days in a quiet, dustless shop doing hand work on an object that is beautiful, useful and fun to make." --Peter Galbert

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Voigt View Post
    Robert, I've used Peters and highly recommend them if you have volume, but if you are just doing a couple irons it doesn't make economic sense. It's something like $50 for one iron. They charge $110 for up to 20 irons, and you pay shipping both ways. Above 20 irons, it gets even cheaper.
    This sounds like a good excuse for a group build! Could do a bulk order and hold a contest here at SMC.

    By the way, that article mentions a bit about lumber selection. Chris states that hard maple might be worth considering as material for a plane. Anyone care to comment on that? I know beech can be tough to find.
    Last edited by Mike Cherry; 03-18-2016 at 6:11 PM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Chase View Post
    Out of curiosity how did he prevent decarburization? (loss of carbon near the surface during heat treatment)

    Did he use an anti-scale coat of some sort? If so do you know what it was?

    The pros use molten salt baths, vacuum or inert-gas furnaces, etc but clearly if he did it in your backyard he didn't have access to any of that.

    I don't pretend to know anything about the process other than what Matt showed me and what I saw on Larry Williams DVDs. What Matt did was very similar to what Larry does. He used a large torch and moved the iron under the flame determing the outcome by eye then plunged it in peanut oil pilfered from my wife's cabinet. Beyond the peanut oil nothing else was used.

  14. #14
    As far as I know decarburisation is not a huge problem with O1. As long as you don't overheat the steel. Of course, the skin of the steel will loose some, but you grind that anyway.

    Now, I have my suspicions about the method Larry Williams shows in his videos. He heats up the steel until small blisters appear. That looks like overheating.

  15. #15
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    Without trying to sound harsh at all, what you want to do is sort of backwards to what is the best way to tune (or make) an iron to any moulding plane. It's a much easier task to shape the iron to the existing corrected profile of a plane than the other way around.

    Shaping an untreated iron from Lie Nielsen is the easiest way to get a high quality iron that is going to work very well with your plane. Once you've got it "roughed in", heat treating, followed by a final grind of the hardened tool to match your profile will give you the best results. I'm not saying that you can't do it the way you are thinking, but it will be more difficult to yield the results you're looking for. The iron just needs to be fitted to the plane.

    Heat treating these small irons is not a big deal. You can easily make your own small forge-like working station with a box of fire brick for woodburning stoves. A decent torch and you're on your way. I use acetylene, because I have a large acety/oxy setup for other work I do, but you can get away with Mapp Gas, or Propane if need be. It just takes a little longer.

    With all things, there's a learning curve, but in this regard, it's pretty easy and a short learning curve to getting good results.

    I, too, highly recommend Larry's video(s). You will learn a lot and be glad you did.
    Jeff

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