Water based top coats for kitchen cabinets

[Mike Berrevoets]

I'm building some kitchen cabinets for our home and I'm looking for suggestions on finishes. The fronts will be maple. Most of the cabinets will be clear finished but the island will be a dark blue color.

i have a HVLP gun that runs off my compressor but I don't spray very often so I'm looking for something that is "easy" to spray. I'm looking for suggestions on both a clear finish and a pigmented top coat.

For the clear finish:
id like a non-yellowing finish for the maple. Ive used general finishes high performance poly before and it seems to spray nice for me but I'm concerned about the durability on kitchen cabinets. I don't think that product passes the KCMA standards and when I used it on a vanity in a bathroom it isn't holding up as well as I'd have liked for whatever reason. Does GF have another product that is easy to spray and passes KCMA standards? Or maybe one of the Target products? Or some other product?

For or the pigmented finish:
it seems GF makes a pigmented top coat but when I emailed them they said they won't tint it for me. I asked at the paint store I use and the person I talked to said they could tint an outside product but she didn't inspire confidence about tinting something they don't carry. She was also trying to talk me into just using latex so I'm not real confident in that option...

Target makes a product (EM 6500) but again tinting it is an issue. The website says it is compatible with Benjamin Moore tints. We have been looking at Benjamin Moore colors to make a color choice but will a local BM dealer be able to tint to the same color we pick?

how does everyone else tint pigmented top coats?

i one time used a ML Campbell water based pigmented top coat to paint a piece black. I found a local ml Campbell dealer to purchase from. But it looks like ml Campbell has changed their product line so I don't know if the new product (aqualente?) the same as the old product. By the way, painting black was a real pain.... I'm not that good of a painter. I swore never again will I ever do anything in black. But now a dark blue might be just as bad.

Any advise would be appreciated.

[Bill Neely]

I like a light finish on maple too, Fuhr 355 acrylic varnish has a pale straw color to it. Jeff Jewett sold it at one time but recently when I've ordered it, it came from Maryland and another time from Montana. Besides being a durable, attractive finish it was billed as 'idiot proof' - I can vouch for that.

[Mike Berrevoets]

I like a light finish on maple too, Fuhr 355 acrylic varnish has a pale straw color to it. Jeff Jewett sold it at one time but recently when I've ordered it, it came from Maryland and another time from Montana. Besides being a durable, attractive finish it was billed as 'idiot proof' - I can vouch for that.

Funny you mentioned the Fuhr 355 product. I used that at the previous house when I re-did the kitchen. It must be idiot proof because it worked well for me and that was the first time I really sprayed anything. We sold that house about a year after I finished the cabinets so I don't know if it is still holding up well or not. I went looking for Fuhr products but they seem to have been bought out and I'm not having much luck finding them again. I got it last time from Jeff Jewitt but that was about 10 years ago.

[Travis Porter]

I have sprayed the ML Campbell Aqualente. IT lays down well, and has held up well. I used it on my daughter's desk and so far no complaints. I plan to spray it again on some vanities I am building.

[Quinn McCarthy]

Mike,

I used to use Fuhr 355. I had great l had great luck with it. Dried quick and had an amber tint to it so it looked like oil based.

I use General Enduro-var which has an amber tint to it also. Neither finishes are cheap but you get what you pay for. Especially on Kitchen cabinet. They can get abuse.

Hope that helps Mike.

[John TenEyck]

I've used a lot of GF's EnduroVar and it is a very durable WB product. Strange that GF does not list it as KCMA rated, but in my own testing it proved more chemically resistant than some other finishes that are KCMA rated, including GF's Enduro Clear Poly. That is a great product too, especially if you want a water clear finish, just not quite as chemically durable.

I've also sprayed some of GF's Enduro White Poly. I liked it a lot and it has held up well so far. However, it has a viscosity of nearly 100 seconds through a #4 Ford cup, so you can't spray it with a typical gravity feed HVLP gun unless you thin it. I use a pressure assisted HVLP gun and it sprays great. If you don't have a pressure assisted gun I would look at ML Campbell's Agualente. It's viscosity is really low, like maybe 35 seconds, IIRC, so you can spray it with a typical gravity feed gun. You can tint it with Homestead Finishing's Cal-Tint UTCs to any color you need.

Some folks here really like BM's Satin Impervo. I've never used it but it's something to look into and should be available in any color you want, locally. SW makes a great alkyd paint called ProClassic that should spray pretty well, too. The viscosities of both those products may require some thinning though.

John

[Jamie Buxton]

Trying to get waterborne lacquer colored is pretty frustrating. We're all accustomed to getting latex paint colored: the manufacturer publishes recipes so the paint store knows how to make each specific color in their color deck. As far as I can tell, no manufacturer of waterborne lacquer has made that investment in recipes. So you have to rely on old-school technique: somebody's eyeball. That person needs to understand how the colorants interact, and has to have a good eye for color. A few paint stores have somebody who is good at this, but most do not. The best you can do is to ask each possible paint store if they think they can do a good job. Try out the most promising candidate. If they don't do well enough, try somebody else. Don't presume their results can be reproduced. That is, buy enough paint for the entire job. You might even mix all the cans together, and then put them back in the cans. At least all of the paint on that job will be the same.

[Mike Berrevoets]

I've used GF endurovar on a vanity wood top. It has held up very well in that location after 3 years. It is our bathroom so we do baby it a little bit. I wouldn't have done the same in my kids bathroom.

Im gravitating to the GF Enduro ClearPoly for the clear finish since we are trying to keep the light maple look.

Ive sprayed SW Proclassic before with my gravity feed gun. It did require a lot of thinning before I could get an acceptable finish and it seemed pretty "soft" like a latex paint when I was done. I also recall that the sheen seemed to vary. Maybe because of how much I had to thin the material or maybe because I'm just not that good at spraying. that would probably be the easiest since the local store could tint it for me.

I just noticed on Homestead Finishings site that they will tint the pigmented poly to any manufacturers color. I have about 100 square feet or so to "paint". Can I get away with just a gallon?

[John TenEyck]

There are at least three ProClassic paints. One is an acrylic waterborne - it is really, really think. One is an oil based alkyd. And one is a waterborne acrylic-alkyd blend. Thinning the waterborne ones so much that you can spray it with a gravity feed gun is not a good idea and probably why you found it to be soft and the sheen to vary. Anyway, all of them are meant to be applied with an airless sprayer.

I'm not sure you could spray GF's Enduro White Poly with any gravity feed HVLP gun w/o thinning. You would need a large needle/nozzle for sure.

If you don't want to buy a gun that can handle those products it would be wiser to use a product that fits with your gun. The only "paint" we've talked about so far that fits that bill is ML Campbell's Agualente. You can buy it here if there is no distributor near you: https://absupply.net/searchfast.aspx...mpbell&Page=13

John

[Jamie Buxton]

..I just noticed on Homestead Finishings site that they will tint the pigmented poly to any manufacturers color...

Well, actually the Homestead site says that they can have General Finishes tint their pigmented poly to anybody's color deck. But you said in your original post that GF had told you they wouldn't do this for you. If you pursue this route, please report what you learn. Finding somebody who will step up to the plate would be great.

[Mike Berrevoets]

I'm not sure you could spray GF's Enduro White Poly with any gravity feed HVLP gun w/o thinning. You would need a large needle/nozzle for sure.

If you don't want to buy a gun that can handle those products it would be wiser to use a product that fits with your gun. The only "paint" we've talked about so far that fits that bill is ML Campbell's Agualente. You can buy it here if there is no distributor near you: https://absupply.net/searchfast.aspx...mpbell&Page=13

John

I've been kicking around getting a new gun. Actually leaning towards the setup you posted about recently but my compressor only delivers about 6cfm.

I am able to spray GF endurovar and high performance poly Ok with my current gun. Does the GF Enduro White poly have a longer ford #4 time then EnduroVar and HP Poly? What about the GF Clear Poly?

I have a local ML Campbell dealer. I could go aqualente for both the clear finish and pigmented top coat. (Two different products but the same name?) Literature says they both have a Ford #4 of less than 60 seconds which is the magic number for my current gun.

[Mike Berrevoets]

Well, actually the Homestead site says that they can have General Finishes tint their pigmented poly to anybody's color deck. But you said in your original post that GF had told you they wouldn't do this for you. If you pursue this route, please report what you learn. Finding somebody who will step up to the plate would be great.

Ah.. True. I read that too fast. When I emailed GF it was probably last year and maybe they said no because I wasn't a pro or some policy changed in the meantime. my guess is homestead has some pull/volume with GF. Certainly more pull than me.

[John TenEyck]

GF's Enduro White Poly is stated at something like 75 seconds through a #4 Ford cup. I measured it at about 100 seconds. EnduroVar and Enduro Clear Poly has a stated and measured viscosity of around 45 seconds. HP Poly has a stated viscosity of 45 - 55 seconds, IIRC, but it measures at 60 - 65. I have to thin HP poly 6% to get it down to 45 seconds so that it will spray well with my 1.8 mm gravity feed HVLP gun. EnduroVar and Clear Poly I can spray w/o thinning. The White Poly is too high to consider trying to thin it.

My new spray gun (Qaulspray AM-6008 SmartPak) sprays all of them, and more, beautifully. If you were thinking about a new gun I highly recommend it. I have the HVLP version because my compressor can put out more than 10 CFM, but it is offered in a LVLP version, too, for lower output compressors. The pressure assist allows you to use a smaller orifice which gives finer atomization and a smoother finish. I can spray EnduroVar much better with this gun than I could my gravity feed setup. I spray the Enduro White Poly with a 1.3 mm N/N. With a gravity feed gun I think you'd have to use a 2.5 mm N/N and might still have to thin it. I also went with the 3M PPS cup system and love it. Clean up is easier but the real beauty is in being able to spray at any angle including upside down. Don't know how I ever got along w/o it before. It's like having a gun on a pressure pot w/o all the cleanup and other issues associated with that system.

However, I'm basically cheap and if I had a local ML Campbell dealer I would strongly consider the Agualente products.

John

[Mike Berrevoets]

Just an update in case someone runs across this on a search.

i went to a local painters supply that primarily supplies to body shops, etc. They carried ML Campbell and mixed waterborne Aqualente pigmented top coat to the Benjamin Moore color my wife had picked. Took a few hours so I picked it up a day later. I asked how they tinted it and they take the fan color from the BM deck and do it buy eye. Trial and error. The sample looks the same to me so I guess it is close enough if I can't tell the difference. I had a lot more confidence in their mixing abilities then I would my local hardware store.

Best part. $45 for a gallon mixed.