Universal vs Trotec

[Keith Winter]

Hi guys,

Considering a ILS series Universal. Please talk me down from the ledge...

Seriously though, anyone with a Universal laser (regardless of model) built in the last 8 years how do you like it? Any issues with the side mirrors getting smokey when cutting/engraving or does the air on them keep them clean? Have you had to replace any parts or had any downtime?

[Scott Shepherd]

Keith, we've had our ULS for 8 years now, I think. Would I buy another one? Yes, if Trotec stopped making lasers In my opinion, they are painfully slow, and the cost to operate is high. We were doing a belt/bearing/rollers replacement kit about once a year at the tune of about $500 per pop. When you don't do it, you see detail quality slipping and mismatches in vector cutting.

The belts on it are about 1/4" wide, where the Trotec's are about 1" wide. To me, that would be like trading in your sports car for a mini van.

I don't know specifically what issues that are driving you there, but I suspect it's the same frustration many of us have, and that's that we have no input to Austria and nothing we suggest ever makes it into any future versions. I've turned in bug reports for more than 3 years and most of them aren't fixed yet.

Universal is a decent company to work with and they have some top notch software people. I just don't think it's even remotely close to being the same quality machine.

Maybe a CO2 galvo would be a better fit for some of your work?

[Gary Hair]

One word - Glowforge! Oh wait, is that two words??? Anyway, that's my advice and I'm sticking with it.

[Paul Phillips]

Hi Keith, I've had my Professional series for almost 6 years now, I wanted a Trotec but they were that much more expensive at the time. I chose my machine after I went to a sign convention in Las Vegas and saw all the machines in action and I was most drawn to the Universals based mostly on the ease of use of the software as well as the price as I was able to get a good deal on one.

I would agree with Steve's opinion though that the belts and bearings need to be replaced too frequently, we do more cutting than engraving though so we replace ours about every two years. On the bright side, any problems I have had, their tech support has been very helpful with diagnosing problems and overnighting parts and or throwing in parts for free when needed. I do wish their website was a bit more user friendly like Epilogs with sample files and FAQs.

FWIW though, they came out with the new XLS series which appears to be the top of the line above the ILS?. They claim it's the fastest but I haven't seen any hard #s on that, I would like to see one in action and see how it compares to the rest. If anyone on here has one maybe they can let us know what the specs are and how they like it? I think my next machine will be a Trotec though.

[Scott Shepherd]

I know this is 3rd hand information, but I had an interesting discussion with someone that knew a lot about the industry and I asked why the ULS machines were so slow in their movement. His response to me was that that's where their patents were. So the things that made their stuff patentable was in that sweet spot where they operate. That's way over my head, and that discussion was a couple of years ago now, so who knows. It did make me think about part of it that I never thought about before, in that some patents might be tied to very specific features/speeds.

My personal thoughts were always that Universal had the horsepower in it's personnel to develop a smoking fast machine. I just never understood why they didn't.

They used to brag about having the lowest cost tube recharging in the business. I think a 45W was like $1,100 or $1,200. Recently, it's been said they that has doubled, meaning that's no longer a good strong selling point.

[Ross Moshinsky]

I would not recommend buying one new. Picking one up used for cheap isn't the worst idea in the world. Generally speaking, the machine's rails, bearings, and belts are way under engineers and the beam quality is satisfactory and that's it. I can tell you my little LS100 is a much better machine.

[Ali Kemp]

I'm a very happy Speedy 400 owner. I have to say between the software and the engineering that went into the machine I think its worth every penny. I come from an engineering product development background and have developed a few gantry systems myself. The detail that goes into the Trotec machines is well worth the money.

At the end of the day though any tool is only as good as its operator, and how well you take care of it =)

[Mark Sipes]

If your talking about a Universal, you must be putting your Trotecs (2) up for sale..... ? I'll be right over........... It's just a dream. get off the curb and quit thinking about jumping into another system/software/parts/settings dilemma..


JMT

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[Keith Winter]

I don't know specifically what issues that are driving you there, but I suspect it's the same frustration many of us have, and that's that we have no input to Austria and nothing we suggest ever makes it into any future versions. I've turned in bug reports for more than 3 years and most of them aren't fixed yet.

Yes this and the lack of support. Plus I liked some of what I saw on the Universals in regards to cutting. Having had a couple different lasers now including the one Chinese, I can confidently say the Trotec is an engraving champion, but the cutting performance is lacking. Design of the Trotec forces the smoke near and on the lens and the surface of the substrate. The Universal does not appear to suffer from this, they have more suction (2 x 4" ports vs a single 4" and one 2" on the Trotec) and you can divert the air suction more heavily to the bottom which gives you a cleaner cut and less mess on the top of the substrate. This is all theory of course as I don't have a Universal, but examining their downdraft table vs the Trotec's I was very impressed, and I was also impressed with the extra features their software had.

[Keith Winter]

If your talking about a Universal, you must be putting your Trotecs (2) up for sale..... ? I'll be right over........... It's just a dream. get off the curb and quit thinking about jumping into another system/software/parts/settings dilemma..

Haha you're probably right, the Trotecs have had a few issues, but been great machines overall.

I just wish they would just get back on the support train...

Feels like they have only a couple more people in support but 10x the install base they did 3 years ago. Plus the we're never going to send a tech and we're going to send all parts via ground shipping (arrives 5 days later) is killer for a business. When we started they overnighted parts and came up the two times we had issues. Not that way when we had issues last year, it was very hands off and we were left out in the cold for over a month. Then, when my x axis motor went out in January it took them 7 days to ship the part to us, not a good experience.

[David Somers]

Keith, I wonder if the other Trotec owners like Scott have experienced the same issues you are mentioning and how they have dealt with it. Scott is inventive for example and if a feature bugged him and resolving it wouldnt toast his warrantee I am sure he would find a way to fix it. Perhaps he and the other Trotec owners could give you some insights that might help?

[Mike Null]

My first machine was a ULS which performed quite nicely. I liked the software at the time--nearly 20 years ago. But the comments on belts and bearings is right on. The fact is, Trotec is a far more robust machine than ULS or Epilog. I have had no issues with tech support but they are slow to respond to suggestions for improvements to Job Control.

My business requires a lot of rastering and a moderate amount of cutting--nothing complex--so the cutting issue hasn't been a complaint of mine.

[Scott Shepherd]

I uploaded this 4 years ago. I don't see much having changed in the motion speed....

[Neville Stewart]

Yes this and the lack of support. Plus I liked some of what I saw on the Universals in regards to cutting. Having had a couple different lasers now including the one Chinese, I can confidently say the Trotec is an engraving champion, but the cutting performance is lacking. Design of the Trotec forces the smoke near and on the lens and the surface of the substrate. The Universal does not appear to suffer from this, they have more suction (2 x 4" ports vs a single 4" and one 2" on the Trotec) and you can divert the air suction more heavily to the bottom which gives you a cleaner cut and less mess on the top of the substrate. This is all theory of course as I don't have a Universal, but examining their downdraft table vs the Trotec's I was very impressed, and I was also impressed with the extra features their software had.

I don't do a lot of cutting and haven't ever hooked up the additional 2'' hose that ports under the table, would that make a difference in smoke evacuation?

[Paul Phillips]

Wow, Steve, that video says it all, thanks for posting it!

No machine or company is perfect, they all have their strengths and weaknesses but at the end of they day Trotec always seems to rise to the top.