waterlox, questions remain

[Steve Van Kirk]

Hi Colin,

For most coats I didn't thin the Waterlox. On the last coat or two, I was "forced" to. The remaining product I had in my working jar was starting to gel, and that was the last I had. I didn't need to apply much more, so I poured out the good liquid, thinned it, and used it to finish up. (I was hoping to avoid buying another quart just to finish the small bit I had left. In the end, I had to buy another quart anyways, but I don't remember why. )

So I guess what I'm saying is that there's no need to thin it, but that if you want to, you're not going to hurt anything, either. You just won't build as quickly, if that's the stage you're in. And as I recall, the thinned stuff was slightly easier to spread. BUT, that could have been because the product in my working jar may have slowly started to thicken wo/really being noticeable, & adding MS maybe brought it closer to it's original consistency. My best guess, though, is that it was still thinner than the out-of-the-can consistency.

Hope this helps!

Steve

[Prashun Patel]

Scott is right. Dont thin original sealer finish.

[Colin Dingler]

so here's another quandary: after letting the last coat dry for 2.5 days, I went to give a final light sanding (600 grit paper this time) before the final coat, and it seemed like the coat *still* wasn't quite dry. rather than form a fine dust, it gummed up all over the paper making the sanding impossible. I had waited 2.5 days for it dry because in previous experiments when I waited the suggest 24 hours, the surface didn't seem dry.

I know that atmospheric issues affect drying speed, but it is about 70 degrees here and around 40% humidity in the room, so wouldn't more than twice the drying time be sufficient?

Yesterday, I ran into a different problem with the second counter top that I finished. On this one, I stuck to the mfr. directions of applying the coats with a brush--5-6 coats, some with a natural brush and the final ones with a foam brush. I installed the counter top in the kitchen after 2 weeks waiting to let it harden. One week has passed, so 3 weeks total. I put my food processor on it and left it overnight; when I went to move it, the rubber feet had stuck to the surface and tore off little divots. Waterlox customer service said that sometimes plasticizers can do this to the finish, but he seemed surprised that it happened after I let the product dry for 3 weeks.

Has anybody else run into problems where it seems like the surface simply isn't curing as it should? The WX rep suggested that my birch butcherblock may have come with a coat of wax on it--it certainly seemed unfinished to me, but even if it had some wax, why would that affect how the sixth coat of finish adheres to the rubber feet of an object set on top of it?

[Alan Lightstone]

I built a TV table for my son with a Waterlox OSF finish and had the rubber feet from the TV leave permanent marks when I placed the TV on it about 1 month after applying the last coat of finish.

There is something chemically in those rubber feet that reacts. Sorta like plasticizer issues with other materials.

[Prashun Patel]

Something is wrong if th finish will not dry in a couple days. A contaminated surface can prevent some finishes from drying hard. This can affect multiple layers. Even if you are able to entomb soft layers in hard top layers, they can eventually crack or wrinkle or blister.

When this has happened to me, the solution is sometimes to just wait a few more days. If the surface hardens you will probably be ok.

In the mean time, try executing your regimen on a test piece so you can confirm that the problem is not in fact bad finish, which can ask be your problem. Although, i suspect the former because with Waterlox if it goes bad your jar or can will become telltale bad jelly.

[Colin Dingler]

good to know that there may be a problem with these rubber feet that I need to watch out for in the future.

but I'm also suspecting now that something may have been wrong with the butcher-block surface or my method of preparing for the first coat. I decided to do an experiment with one of the leftover pieces of birch butcher-block:

• on one part of the test piece, I followed directions that I read online to attempt to remove any wax that had been applied to the surface. To do this, I used mineral spirits and green 3m pad (some sources recommended amonia or acetone, but I had neither of those). It appeared that there was some residue coming off, so I wiped clean with a lint-free cloth and repeated several times until the surface seemed clean. Then I let it dry and sanded down with 120 grit paper, per the Waterlox instructions for preparing the unfinished surface.

• On the other half of the test piece, I just left the surface as it came from the chain store (Menards). Interestingly, the untouched side seemed coarser to the touch than the de-waxed/sanded side.

• As a control, I took a third piece of wood that I know is unfinsihed/unwaxed--a scrap of pine board. I sanded this down with 120.

• Then I applied the same amount of Waterlox to each test area using a natural bristle brush. I left them to dry for 24 hours with good cross ventilation in a 70% room.

Results were surprising: The unfinished pine and the un-sanded side of the butcher block had an identical consistency--it looked like the WX fully penetrated into the wood and had an even, satin look. Surface was dry to the touch. However, the butcher block that I tried to de-wax and sanded with 120 had a totally different look. In fact, it looked just like the first coat that I applied several weeks ago when I started this project. The WX was glossy; it didn't appear to be absorbed into the wood, but rather it looked like it had dried on the surface, and there was more texture/impurities. It was still a little tacky to the touch. This makes me think that I screwed up somewhere in the first coat of finishing the counter that I have had curing problems with.

But the results don't point to a clear cause. Why did the experiment turn out better when I *didn't* do any prep (sanding or attempts at removing wax) to the butcher block? That seems counter-intuitive. It also makes me question this theory that wax is culprit with my slow curing times and compromised finish. Yet pre-sending doesn't seem to be the culprit, because the pine test piece turned out good.

Poorly designed experiment, I guess... Should I just continue to use the same brand of butcher block on the other side, omit any presanding, and hope it turns out better?

[Scott DelPorte]

Hi Colin, I had some problems with the finish not fully drying because I was adding coats too fast. It was dry to the touch, but easy to mark with a fingernail, and rubbery when sanded. I ended up sanding off all the rubbery stuff, then re-did it, but only adding one coat per day. Doing it this way was slow, but created no further problems.

I hope that's helpful. I was building a thick enough layer so I could sand and buff flat with filled pores, which might be different than the look you are going for.

[Brian Williamson]

good to know that there may be a problem with these rubber feet that I need to watch out for in the future.

but I'm also suspecting now that something may have been wrong with the butcher-block surface or my method of preparing for the first coat. I decided to do an experiment with one of the leftover pieces of birch butcher-block:

• on one part of the test piece, I followed directions that I read online to attempt to remove any wax that had been applied to the surface. To do this, I used mineral spirits and green 3m pad (some sources recommended amonia or acetone, but I had neither of those). It appeared that there was some residue coming off, so I wiped clean with a lint-free cloth and repeated several times until the surface seemed clean. Then I let it dry and sanded down with 120 grit paper, per the Waterlox instructions for preparing the unfinished surface.

• On the other half of the test piece, I just left the surface as it came from the chain store (Menards). Interestingly, the untouched side seemed coarser to the touch than the de-waxed/sanded side.

• As a control, I took a third piece of wood that I know is unfinsihed/unwaxed--a scrap of pine board. I sanded this down with 120.

• Then I applied the same amount of Waterlox to each test area using a natural bristle brush. I left them to dry for 24 hours with good cross ventilation in a 70% room.

Results were surprising: The unfinished pine and the un-sanded side of the butcher block had an identical consistency--it looked like the WX fully penetrated into the wood and had an even, satin look. Surface was dry to the touch. However, the butcher block that I tried to de-wax and sanded with 120 had a totally different look. In fact, it looked just like the first coat that I applied several weeks ago when I started this project. The WX was glossy; it didn't appear to be absorbed into the wood, but rather it looked like it had dried on the surface, and there was more texture/impurities. It was still a little tacky to the touch. This makes me think that I screwed up somewhere in the first coat of finishing the counter that I have had curing problems with.

But the results don't point to a clear cause. Why did the experiment turn out better when I *didn't* do any prep (sanding or attempts at removing wax) to the butcher block? That seems counter-intuitive. It also makes me question this theory that wax is culprit with my slow curing times and compromised finish. Yet pre-sending doesn't seem to be the culprit, because the pine test piece turned out good.

Poorly designed experiment, I guess... Should I just continue to use the same brand of butcher block on the other side, omit any presanding, and hope it turns out better?

I know, old post... but it sounds like your brand of MS is not compatible with the WLX.