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Thread: wood filler ?'s

  1. #1
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    wood filler ?'s

    I'm building some tables out of construction grade 2x4's, gluing up and squaring off. (RE: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=23894 ). Even after planing the surface they still need some patching. They will be indoors, primed and painted, subject to occasional spills and cleaning.

    What should I use as a filler? If wood putty, please specify a brand you like, I have had very little to no success with the stuff in the past. Can I simply use joint compound and prime over it?
    Tony

  2. #2
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    If you want zero shrinkage, Bondo would be a good choice. Small voids can also be filled with spackling compound.
    --

    The most expensive tool is the one you buy "cheaply" and often...

  3. #3
    Tony,

    I've used Minwax's Stainable Wood Filler on paint projects with great success. It sands up very well and once primed and painted there is no trace of a fill and no trouble with shrinkage....yet.

    Not as great on stained projects.

    Good luck,
    -joe
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    Last edited by Joe Unni; 09-18-2005 at 11:30 AM. Reason: Additional filler info
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  4. #4
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    I go with Jim on the Bondo. MinWax make a version called, High Preformance Wood Filler which is a wood tone and more expansive. I just think it looks more professional on the jobsite.

    Richard

  5. #5
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    Bondo is obsolete but were along the right path.

    You can use an epoxy restoration agent used to replace rotten wood. One of the names by which this stuff goes by is "Swedish Putty". Often, these products come in two boxes. One is a wood stabilizier for stabilizing fibers that have been subjected to rot. The other is a two part compound that forms a replacment putty. Great for restoration of old doors and stuff. The stuff can be cut and machined like wood too. Woodcraft had some similar stuff in a yellow box with either red or black trim. Same chemistry, different maker. Norm used swedish putty and I used the woodcraft junk. You may try woodcraft and highland hardware. Tell them you are doing restoration of architectual details.

    The other stuff is body filler. Bondo is dead. Its been replaced by automtive body filler which is a polyurathane based two part putty. You add a bit of cream hardner from a tube. These come in a variety of flavors from companies like dupont. You have the standard filler which is harder and heavier. Then there is the usual stuff used by body shops which contains ample amounts of Talc powder. Lighter but softer. Then you also have one which contains chopped up fiberglass fibers. The problem with the fiberglass one is that it can be a bit fuzzy after sanding.

    None of these putties can be used thick and work best in non joinery related areas. I made a pattern a few years back for the throat plate of a standard northfield saw. I used poplar wood to make the pattern and then skim coated the whole pattern with a 1/16 inch layer of this body filler. Then spent many hours sanding it down, checking for flatness and checking for dimensions. Lastly, the sanding scracthes were an issue. The final finishing work came from using another auto body product. This one was called "ICING". It comes in a fat toothpaste like tube and I have seen it in red and blue colors. Different company, different color. I think TP TIP tools in Ohio sells the "ICING" product. This stuff fills in tiny defects and preps the item for paint. As said, these items work great on wood as long as you keep them thin and keep them away from joints. The movement in joints will ultimately crack this stuff as it will virtually all the other products.

    When we restore woodworking machines, you sometimes wind up having to refill casting defects and skim coat the non machined surfaces of the cast iron with a very thin layer of this body filler. This was done for years by all the major US machine tool makers. The european makers like martin and hoffman still do this today. The body work on a machine like a table saw or shaper takes about 80 hours from start to final paint. So its only done on very expensive machines and personal machine restorations anymore. If you have ever seen a brand new bridgeport milling machine made by hardinge in new york, you will know what I am talking about! Throw on a set of wheels and you have an entry for the custom car shows
    Last edited by Dev Emch; 09-18-2005 at 11:53 AM.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  6. #6
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    Tony. I have had really good success with "Quick Wood" by Polymeric Systems. It is a two part epoxy putty. You break off a piece, Knead it with your fingers, until it gets a little too warm, and force it into the void to be filled.
    It cures in about an hour, or two if you want to sand and paint. A full 24 hours and it will take a router bit better than the wood. If you give it 3-4 days, you can redrill an offset hole, if you messed up the first time damhikt.
    It isn't cheap though. It runs $4-5 dollars for a tube.
    I know that Woodcraft has it, and the local Orange Borg also carries it. It comes in a few seperate tones also, depending on the need.
    The Minwax brand of wood putty is also good, as is the Dap brand but they really takes a day or two for a full cure, before you should start to shape it. Deep voids need to be filled in stages and allowed to cure in between also. I know that the directions on the can state otherwise, just my experience though.

  7. #7
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    I still have good luck with what is still breathing of my Bondo In fact, I just used some on the main bathroom doors to fill the holes from the handles, since we will use a different style. Dries ready to sand in about 15 minutes. I've never had any pop outs, and I've used it indoors and out. Home Depot sells the big cans of Bondo, and the same brand same size for wood filler, ingredients say they are the same thing inside. The Bondo is about 2 to 3 dollars less! I guess woodworkers aren't supposed to be able to read!?!

    I haven't heard of the new stuff, Dev. If it dries as fast, it should work just as well. Jim.

  8. #8
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    Dev, you are always a wealth of information.

    Quote "Tell them you are doing restoration of architectual details."

    The man is builting some 2X4 display tables. Sometimes you need the product to fit the piece you are working on. Restoration epoxy maybe overkill in this situation.

    Richard

  9. #9
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    Dap Wood Dough would be my choice for minor, or even semi-major imperfections. I've used the stuff for years now, almost always with good results. When I didn't get good results, I knew I was overtaxing it's capabailities and should have moved on to autobody filler - which by the way works awesome. Keep in mind that you will get shrinkage with all of the standard wood fillers, so a second application may be required on larger voids.

    Dev - great info, much appreciated, but maybe overkill for this project.

    Mike

  10. #10
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    Dev,
    I think you're dating yourself! These days, Bondo is a generic name for body filler as you have described - kinda like Kleenex for facial tissue. Bondo is still a brand, but usually seen in the retail market. Bondo (the company) actually has a series of products marketed for the home including a wood filler, though I've never used it.
    Body filler and glazing putty/spot putty have become very specialized these days - it's like going to the store and looking at the Coke display - a variety for every taste!
    What I see that is different about Icing you mentioned is that it is a two part system (polyester based). Most glazing putties have been single part/direct apply products (lacquer based). I wonder if this is a new area of innovation to reduce VOC's? It will certainly cut curing times - maybe shrinkage as well. Things change so rapidly in the automotive coatings industry it is hard to keep track of it all - even for the pros.

    But I digress. I would think bodyfiller would work as well. No need to get any fancy stuff. But if you do use it, remember to have good ventilation because it smells - I like it, but many do not.

    Wes

  11. #11
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    The old bondo that we used on fixing up our hot rods in high school is actually a polester based product which uses a catalyst. Body guys sometimes also added stuff called micro-ballons to this in order to lighten it up a bit. Bondo can dry very brittle and it cracks under light flexture. I have seen this stuff about in the retail chains but I have issues with paying the price that they ask.

    The body shops and body shop supply outfits ofte sell body filler by the gallon and its often a better deal. These products are based on a two part polyurathane putty.

    In both cases, they cure very quickly and you can speed up the cure time a bit by using more cream hardner.

    One reason I dont like bondo is that I have seen how its abused. Not fair for the product but it sure leaves a poor image. In one case, a fellow thought he would be slick by filling in the recess on the back of an old ford pickup tailgate. As some of you can remember, these gates had a recess about an 1 inch deep for sytlish reasons. But the hotrodders like streamlined looks and these were often replaced by smooth back tailgates. Not wanting to spend the cash for a new tailgate, he simply mixed up some bondo in what would have to a a cement mixer and filled in this entire gap! It looked great when it came out of paint! A few weeks later, he hit a bump in the road and this entire loaf of bondo poped out and broke up on the street! Defininitely not a resounding product recommendation here!

    I have used the minmax two part wood filler epoxy putty on an exterior application. Worked great for a couple of years and then it too cracked and fell out. I guess the hot and cold and wet and dry had an effect on it and the bond between it and the wood.

    These days, when I run into this pickle and I can paint the final product, I usually bore out the defect and replace it with a wooden plug. I use a template and inlay kit to make a "patch" between 1/8 and 1/4 inch thick and glue this into place and sand smooth. For exterior use, I use resourcinol glue and for interior use, I use titebond. I use pounds of resourcinol so I always have some on hand. That is why I use it in weather exposed applications. Its waterproof and I have bunches of it. No other reason.
    Had the dog not stopped to go to the bathroom, he would have caught the rabbit.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cutler
    I have had really good success with "Quick Wood" by Polymeric Systems. It is a two part epoxy putty. You break off a piece, Knead it with your fingers, until it gets a little too warm, and force it into the void to be filled.
    For the times I need a little wood filler, this product works great. It is strong and machines/sands well. Really sticks well and hardens rapidly.

  13. #13
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    Not to steal Tony's tread, but I think he has enough answers.
    Dev, you always have alot of answers and knowledge, seems like you have alot of experience, sounds like you have a great shop, and you are always working on many projects. Isn't it about time we saw some of you, your shop and your work. Those of us that are imagination impaired need some pictures, how about it?

    Richard

  14. #14
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    Thanks everyone.........

    Thanks for all the info, I run 'em all thru the jointer to get two square sides, then the opposite sides thru the TS to get 'em square. Bottom line, they didn't look as bad as I expected, as a matter of fact, they are looking pretty decent. I hit about 10 of them with 80x belt sander (it was getting late & I promised LOML I'd take her out for supper) and they looked even better. Out of the ten only a couple will need patching, nothing very big, mostly fill the joints where I glued them and some knot holes.

    I plan on finishing with the 80x tomorrow evening, fill and patch as needed, then hit 'em lightly with 120x RAS, prime them, hit them with 180x RAS and deliver them for final painting by my daughter. Sound like a Plan ?? If not, let me know.

    BTW: Daughter and SIL were painting the walls (Previously a young ladies clothing store, reeked with pink) and cleaning the floors at the new store today, called me to say that the old checkout counter from the previous tenant was falling apart, so they threw it out. Guess what I get to start as soon as the tables are finished!!

    Kids, don't ya' just love 'em!!
    Tony

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