The Essential Oilpot

[Bill McNiel]

For those interested in having a traditional Japanese Oil Pot, I have access to Bamboo (approx 3 1/4" OD). If 10 or so Creekers want one I will gladly provide the Bamboo for the price of shipping, probably by USPS?

[John Stankus]

The stuff in the gun oil is Tritolyl Phosphate, not Tricresyl Phosphate. There isn't as much information about that, and phosphates are almost always problematic to some degree, but the MSDS doesn't look all that bad to me.

Different names for the same stuff
Here are about twenty different names for the same stuff
http://www.commonchemistry.org/Chemi...?ref=1330-78-5
Refer to the CAS number for a unique identifier

John (chemist by day)

[Allan Speers]

I just use an old bag of french fries from McDonalds.

- They're greasy as heck, and they never go bad, seeing as they're not actually made from anything organic.

[Chris Hachet]

Thank you for a wonderful write up. And thank you also to the other posters here. I learn so much every time I visit the place.

[Jon McElwain]

Malcolm:

This is a very valid concern, and one that bothered me at first. In my experience, it does not interfere with the finish, or weaken glue bonds at all. Note that I am not advocating slopping a lot of oil on. And by the time I am putting a finish plane to the surface of the piece I am making, there is no need for oil anyway since it is very low-friction work.

Stan

Stan,

I'll admit, the idea of an oil pot is new to me. That said, I do oil my tools from time to time but then I use a clean cloth to wipe off the excess oil. I use oil or paste wax on cast surfaces like the table saw and soles of planes, but this is more for maintenance (monthly or so), not consistently while working on a project.

My question is how much oil do you actually apply and when you stab a chisel into the wick or when you wipe a plane blade? Do you wipe it off on a dry cloth after the wick or go straight to the wood? If there is enough oil to make a visible mark on the wood, I cannot see how it would no affect the finish. How often do you oil? Seems like I don't use a given plane for more than an hour before I am ready to move on to the next part of a project - would you oil once during this session? 5 times? 10? How about a chisel?

I sure appreciate the write-up and your time in answering so many questions!

Jon

[Kirby Krieger]

I just use an old bag of french fries from McDonalds.

- They're greasy as heck, and they never go bad, seeing as they're not actually made from anything organic.

Don't know if you are serious or not — I have seen it used on jobsites to repair a minor scuff when no-one had any Brazil nuts in their lunch box.

[Stanley Covington]

Stan,
My question is how much oil do you actually apply and when you stab a chisel into the wick or when you wipe a plane blade? Do you wipe it off on a dry cloth after the wick or go straight to the wood? If there is enough oil to make a visible mark on the wood, I cannot see how it would no affect the finish. How often do you oil? Seems like I don't use a given plane for more than an hour before I am ready to move on to the next part of a project - would you oil once during this session? 5 times? 10? How about a chisel?
Jon

I don't measure the amount of oil I apply, so it is hard to describe in writing, or even with pictures. It is not a conscious effort to apply just the right amount of oil. When friction increases beyond what it should be when using a plane or saw, I wipe. When I feel the wood in a mortise cut trying to drag my chisel away from the line, or the sides of the mortise become ragged, I stab the chisel into the pot.

I don't normally keep enough oil in the oilpot for a heavy coat in any case. On the other hand, if the oilpot's wick becomes too dry, not enough oil gets on the tool, so I either wipe several times, or add more oil to the oilpot. You will need to experiment for yourself.

To answer your other question, I do not wipe oil off except in cases where I accidentally applied too much oil. This sometimes happens after I have added too much oil to the oilpot, or could not wait long enough for the oil to soak deeply into the wick. I can feel the extra drag and goopy feel of too much oil even as the tool is on the wick. It is very obvious.

I have intentionally applied PU and shellac over surfaces planed with an oiled sole. Of course, there was never any visible oil, either shine or staining, left from the plane when I applied the finish material. No problems even after several years.

Likewise, I have glued up and broken test joints cut with oiled chisels. Not problems. I think FWW Magazine did a similar test some years ago and reached the same conclusions. The glue simply does not care about a bit of oil inside a joint. But once again, I am not slopping on enough oil to coat the inside of the mortise. In fact, nearly all of the oil is on the ejected chips. I do not oil for the last few finish cuts, or when cleaning up the sides with a paring chisel.

I do not apply oil to chisels when chopping or paring dovetails. But I do lightly oil saws when cutting dovetails and tenons for the extra precision.

In my first post to this thread, I mentioned the effectiveness of an oilpot in reducing friction when using a shooting plane. It occurs to me that I should have mentioned the difference between oil and wax for this job. We have all waxed a shooting plane and maybe even the raceway of the shooting board itself with paraffin wax and have noticed how the wax clumps and builds on the bed of the raceway. Oil won't do this.

Stan

[Mike Holbrook]

I have been using Camellia oil, not because I thought it was exotic or better for tools but because I have been concerned about "additives" in many of the commercial motor oils, 3 in 1, WD-40....

I have had problems with my skin, particularly on my hands. A gluten free diet has helped a great deal. Turns out trying to keep gluten out of ones diet is quite the chore. What I have learned over the last year is how many products, even foods, contain substances that can cause large numbers of people issues. Frequently labels attempt to hide rather than reveal. Often the contents of products are remixed and renamed so they can use questionable substances that benefit the bottom line. If things that are sold as food can be a health risk, I worry about what they might put in "detergent" motor oils, oils designed to remove rust, dirt, carbon...

The dental tool oil or mineral oil sounds like a better bet safety wise to me. I am surprised at myself for bringing this up as for many years I paid little attention to what came in contact with my hands with no problems. Sometimes we learn the hard way, get a wake up call...

Anyone out there have knowledge about the "additives" in oils designed more for use in machines than for contact with human skin? I will admit to, what I consider a healthy paranoia here.

[Stanley Covington]

I have been using Camellia oil, not because I thought it was exotic or better for tools but because I have been concerned about "additives" in many of the commercial motor oils, 3 in 1, WD-40....

I have had problems with my skin, particularly on my hands. A gluten free diet has helped a great deal. Turns out trying to keep gluten out of ones diet is quite the chore. What I have learned over the last year is how many products, even foods, contain substances that can cause large numbers of people issues. Frequently labels attempt to hide rather than reveal. Often the contents of products are remixed and renamed so they can use questionable substances that benefit the bottom line. If things that are sold as food can be a health risk, I worry about what they might put in "detergent" motor oils, oils designed to remove rust, dirt, carbon...

The dental tool oil or mineral oil sounds like a better bet safety wise to me. I am surprised at myself for bringing this up as for many years I paid little attention to what came in contact with my hands with no problems. Sometimes we learn the hard way, get a wake up call...

Anyone out there have knowledge about the "additives" in oils designed more for use in machines than for contact with human skin? I will admit to, what I consider a healthy paranoia here.

I think you are wise to be careful of what contacts your skin.

My chemist friend told me that lubricants used for dental and medical equipment are not only safe, but are made to quality standards much higher than any other industry, including the food industry. Some years ago, a different friend gave me a plain, unmarked bottle of a clear oil used for lubricating dental handpieces, which are basically drills of course. I never knew the name or manufacturer. It was an excellent oil. I imagine it was pretty expensive.

There are surely plenty of lubricants approved for use in the food industry that would be safe. I am not sure what they are, or how to purchase them retail, but if someone can suggest what and how, please let us all know.

If you make a good leakproof container, do not overfill it, use it properly, and at all costs avoid using it as a sunscreen applicator, you need never get any of the oil on your skin. I do not recommend doing woodworking with oily fingers.

Health issues aside, some people do not mind oily fingers. I had an uncle who suggested that motor oil was the best way to make a car's paint shiny! I kid you not. My father said I should oil my car's clutch plates to make them last longer! I have heard that this works for brake pads too....

And then there was the suggestion of using McDonalds fast food french fry grease. Yum....

I am not recommending any of these. I refuse to touch McDonald's grease, much less put it into my mouth.

One does need to be remember to be careful when adding oil to your oilpot, or it will overflow wetting the container's outside, and perhaps getting some on your hands.

The wick needs to be tightly rolled and sized so that when inserted in the container, there will be adequate friction holding it in place. If the wick is rolled loosely, or does not fit tightly, chisels and sawblades will tear it to pieces quickly, and the wick will fall apart. If it does not fit tightly into the container, it will fall out, or rock around, or spin. Not good. This means that a good wick becomes fairly dense after rolling and insertion, and consequently, it will take some time for oil to soak in. The fact that the wick projects past the container's rim does not help.

You need to add the oil a bit at a time and let it soak in before adding more or it will run down the sides. This can be frustrating in the middle of a big project with deadlines and the customer looking over your shoulder, and I have been known to carelessly use my oil pot while there is still oil sitting on the top of the wick. Ergo, the need to wipe the excess oil of the tool to avoid making a mess. Unless you have a tiny oil pot, adding oil should be something one does monthly, not daily.

Stan

[Patrick Chase]

There are surely plenty of lubricants approved for use in the food industry that would be safe. I am not sure what they are, or how to purchase them retail, but if someone can suggest what and how, please let us all know.

There are multiple levels of "food-grade" lubricant, depending on whether the compound is expected to intermix with food. Category H1 is the most stringent, to be used in applications where intermixing is expected.

Even CRC 3-36 is nominally "food-grade" as it's NSF-certified for category H2. Note however that lubricants in that level are only allowed in locations where there's "no possibility" of direct contact with food.

[Stanley Covington]

There are multiple levels of "food-grade" lubricant, depending on whether the compound is expected to intermix with food. Category H1 is the most stringent, to be used in applications where intermixing is expected.

Even CRC 3-36 is nominally "food-grade" as it's NSF-certified for category H2. Note however that lubricants in that level are only allowed in locations where there's "no possibility" of direct contact with food.

Patrick:

Thank you for the insight. I take it that H2 cat lubes are not necessarily safe for ingestion or skin contact.

I like CRC 3-36 a lot. Especially for saws. But it does turn into a semisolid wax when the carrier eventually evaporates. Great for tool storage, not so much for an oilpot lube IMO.

Stan

[Reinis Kanders]

I also liked CRC 3-36 for oiling tools for storage, but I think it was affecting drying out my fingers, they would become sort of scaly. Also if planing without wiping it of it would leave black marks for the first couple of strokes. I switched to fluid film http://www.amazon.com/Fluid-Film-nas...dp/B004NDDCKK/ and am pretty happy with its performance. Rust has not been any worse and fingers are better. Supposedly it is lanolin based do nothing bad in it. It does not leave black marks on wood and actually works nicely for oiling tool handles. I dispense it on a rag using oil pump like this one http://www.amazon.com/GOLDENROD-625-.../dp/B000VA93MK

[Charles Guest]

What is being described here is nothing more (or less for that matter) than an Oil Wicke. Popular Woodworking did an article with a little drawing/plans for one of these a few years ago. Jim Kingshott used one in every single video he did that involved hand planing. Adam Cherubini talked about them more times than I can remember. They're convenient. There are other ways of getting oil on a tool but the wicke keeps it off your hands. These are not in any way exclusive to Asian woodworking traditions.

A plain, hard household candle serves about the same function on a plane -- probably even better for iron planes.

Motor oil is mineral oil by the way. If it's not a vegetable oil (flowers, plants, etc.) it's a mineral oil.

[Patrick Chase]

Patrick:

Thank you for the insight. I take it that H2 cat lubes are not necessarily safe for ingestion or skin contact.

It's a matter of degrees. Any mineral-oil-based lubricant has at least the potential to be a skin and/or ingested irritant with sufficient exposure, and as I understand it the H1 requirement is that it be safe for the amount of transfer that comes with incidental contact. For example here's the MSDS for an H1-grade lubricant. The reason they *don't* recommend induced vomiting is because the single greatest risk is for aspiration into the lungs (which impairs the lung's ability to extract oxygen, for reasons that should be fairly obvious).

As I understand it H2 lubricants are simply allowed to be a bit more hazardous, since the expected amount of transfer is smaller (nominally none).

Clarification from a Real Chemist (tm) would be welcome :-).

[Chuck Hart]

For those interested in having a traditional Japanese Oil Pot, I have access to Bamboo (approx 3 1/4" OD). If 10 or so Creekers want one I will gladly provide the Bamboo for the price of shipping, probably by USPS?

Bill I would like one if you have the bamboo. How tall were you going to cut it? I am not far from you.