Position of bench vises

[Aaron Kupferman]

Hey all, I'm new here. Just getting into woodworking and for various reasons I'm only doing hand tools. I'm building my workbench as my first project and am a bit undecided on my vise configuration. I'm looking to do some medium to small stuff like medium and smaller furniture pieces, box and chest variations, and puzzles and toys. Might do a few larger projects around the house, but I don't want to design the bench around a couple of larger one-time projects. Due to the small area I have for a workshop (the empty half of my 1-car garage), I'm building a smaller bench at roughly 4'x23" out of clear fir 2x4's laminated together on their sides and 4x6 fir legs. I'm putting Maple (8/4 @ 6") as the front piece which will hang down lower becoming a bit of a skirt. I'd like to put a front vise like the Rockler Quick Release Front Vise on the front left with another piece of Maple as the clamp block. This vise will only be 12" wide leaving me with 3' of clear bench space to use. The other vise I'm going to use is the Veritas Inset Vise for use with dogs. Following most designs I've seen, the end vise for clamping against dogs is set on the opposite end from the front vise, usually on the right side. Doing this on my smaller bench though would limit my clear usable space to about a 2' section in the middle. I do plan on using planing stops as well, so having some open space would be nice. What I was thinking about doing though is putting the inset vise on the left side of the bench a few inches up from the front vise. The dog on the inset vise can be removed to make it flush, and the top of the front vise will be flush with the top of the bench, but I am worried that they will still conflict with each other. Would this 'both left side' vise configuration only work because I'm using the inset vise, and I just haven't seen anything like this because a more traditional wagon vise needs its own end of the bench to be built up? Or is there a workflow/bench configuration reason nobody puts both vises on the same side, even on a shorter bench? In my mind I can visualize how I'd use the space as-configured, but being a beginner without much experience, I know there's plenty I don't know, and there might be a good reason why I shouldn't put the inset vise on the same side as the front vise. Appreciate any thoughts you can give. Thanks!


Workbench.jpg

[ken hatch]

Aaron,

My advice for bench builds first or even second or third, is as always....KISS. Build a heavy and strong table with good joinery, put a face vise, and a dog hole/planing stop somewhere near the face vise end of the bench. Everything else will tell you where and when it is needed. Work on the bench making changes as needed, when the changes become too many build a new bench and re-purpose the old one.

Build it heavy, strong, cheap, and quickly. then go to work making "stuff', repeat as needed.

BTW, I'm still using the first bench I built 40 some odd years ago, it has changed usage many times but it is still in daily use.

ken

[Kirby Krieger]

Hi Aaron,

As a newbie with one quick bench build under my apron and another in the works, I just want to say that I think Ken Hatch's advice is not only superb but is unsurpassable. You might even save your 8/4 Maple for your furniture or other creations.

There is no shortage of excellent resources you can consult regarding workbenches, and none of them can answer the question at hand: what do _you_ need? There is a way to find the answer: get started, and adapt. And that means (restating Ken's advice): make it sturdy, cheap, and easy to make and change.

Given the constraints you've listed, I'd be tempted to put a planing stop on the left, and have a mountable/removable Moxonish vise at hand.

—Kirby.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Aaron and welcome to the Creek.

The main conflict that comes to mind is when you are sawing with stock held in either vise. When they are at the same end, they get in the way of each other.

jtk

[Phil Mueller]

I'm a novice here, but from what I've read and seen, vise placement is somewhat a consideration of whether you are left handed or right handed.

It is usually recommended (from what I've read) that you should plane away from the vise toward the dog. Less pressure on the vise. Therefore, if you are right handed, the front vise is on the left (holding work to plane from right to left, or holding work to plane from front of bench to back of bench (right handers standing on left side of bench, planing away from the vise).

Staying with the right handed scenario, the inset vise would be placed on the right side of the bench so planing would be done away from the vise, putting pressure on the dog, not the vise.

Whether any of that holds water in real life, I don't know, but seems to make sense. If you can work from both the front and back of the bench, you could mount the inset vise on the back side.

[Curt Putnam]

There are a few good books on workbench design - led by Christopher Schwarz. I can't remember the others right now but I've read them all.

Right handed people work from right to left/ That means your face vice goes on the left with one jaw coplanar with the bench edge - allows for clamping long boards for edge jointing. Adam Cherubini told me I didn't need a tail vice so we discussed at a WIA some years ago. A planing stop is all you {theoretically} need. I'm going to install a tail vice on each of the two sides of the split top bench I have yet to build. The tail vice goes on the right end of the bench because right handers work from right to left. The arrangement makes for easy clamping for face planing or even edge work (moldings, stickings, beading etc.)

There are reasons it has been done that way for hundreds of years. I would not chuck the wisdom of the centuries lightly.

[Aaron Kupferman]

Thanks everybody. I'm definitely trying to keep it simple which is why I didn't want to build a whole integrated wagon wheel or L end vise - especially with my short length bench. I didn't think about the right to left aspect (I am right handed) and not planing at the vise. That's a very good point and I guess I'll have to move my inset vise to the right side. Exactly the kind of 'snap out of it' information I came here for. At least I can remove the dog from it and keep it flush when not in use. Wish I had room for a 6' bench.

I was told by a friend that I should use hardwood for the faces of my front vise which is why I am planning on making the front of the bench and vise block out of Maple. Is it worth it to have a hardwood on the front and in the vise, or should I just use more Fir like the rest of the bench?

[Mike Cherry]

I have a fir bench with a hard maple chop on my front vice. No problemo. I have to also agree with Ken s advice. I built my bench after watching Paul Sellers videos on YouTube. Great bench....for him. After using it a couple years, I have made a laundry list of things I'll change next time and I'm almost ready to build a new one.

[Robert Engel]

This vise will only be 12" wide leaving me with 3' of clear bench space to use.

You lost me. I could help you if I could understanding your reasoning.

I just haven't seen anything like this because a more traditional wagon vise needs its own end of the bench to be built up

Once again, not understanding you. Traditional wagon vises use the thickness of the top nothing needs to be "built up".

Vise face material is not that important.

If you're using bench hooks in the apron hardwood will last longer.

[glenn bradley]

+1 on Ken's advice. I have the inset vise in a Bench-on-Bench.

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For what you describe in making it should work well BUT, I would wait to get it till you knew you needed it. I can comment from experience on the Rockler vise you show. Dad bought the large version and for the price it was a large disappointment. The QR mechanism appears solid and should be functional. After a year of monkeying around with it way too often we just wired the clam-nut shut and use it as a standard vise. I would keep looking.

A front vise and dog holes will do many things. For smaller projects I skip the traditional holddowns and use these.

holddown-1.jpgholddown-3.jpgholddown-4.jpg

The screwing action versus hammering the holddown into the material works better for me on smaller items. They are just made out of $6 Harbor Freight F-style clamps.

For a board jack, a simple handscrew can help you out.

deadman.JPG

The comments on both vises at the same end is spot-on. You would be restricted to one or the other. Your concerns about using up space on the bench makes me believe you will use it not only as a bench but, as an assembly area as well. That being the case makes moving in steps even more sensible. No need to clutter up a simple bench right away if you are not sure of what you want. Like some folks said; KISS and add as your requirements become more clearly defined.