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Thread: Choosing a euro combo. Need some help

  1. #1

    Choosing a euro combo. Need some help

    Hello
    i have decided to purchase a combo machine and have narrowed my choices to a Minimax CU300 or a Felder CF531. From what I can tell these machines are generally in the same quality and capacity arena. I'm slightly leaning twards the Felder but when I got pricing if was shocked to see it was a few thousand higher in cost. Am I missing something? I don't see why. Anyone have any insight?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Courtenay BC Canada
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    2,750
    I'm pricing out sliders right now and plan to order one next week. I've found the same thing, Felder is more expensive, pound for pound and feature for feature. They're hard to compare.

    You kinda have to not listen to the sales guys and simply look at the spec's ..

    I was most surprised to find that many sliders don't support using dado blades. If that matters to you, you may want to confirm.

    I am leaning pretty hard towards SCM.. but might take the weekend mull it over.

  3. #3
    u guys ordering from felder hold out on them forever and the price will start dropping tell them all about minimaxs pricing

    i started out at $15000 for a k700 before tax and shipping , 2 clamps , 2 blades

    at the end it was $14290 2 free clamps inc shipping inc tax 2 blades and they would set the mechine up for me for free. i ended up going with minimax and bought a s600 with the price difference of a s315 and the k700. it seemed like i could add anything to the saw and they would make it 14000ish strip it down 14000s , 14000s is what they wanted no matter what that was.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Houston, Texas area
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    1,308
    I'm in the same boat.

    Besides the specs, it may be worthwhile to look at what's included in the price: Is the mortising unit included in the base price? Wheels? Dado support and dado throat plate? Is a scoring unit and blade included? Are saw blades readily available (i.e. special arbor cut)? Do you prefer straight j/p knives that screw in or a quick change Tersa head? (Spiral heads are available for both, at an extra cost).

    If I remember right, the CU300 includes all the features above, the Felder has them as additional price add-ons, which will probably make the price difference a few thousand more than you thought, if these are features you are interested in.

    My general assessment is: both are great machines, the CU300 gives considerably more bang for the buck, and you will be happy whatever you decide.
    Last edited by mark mcfarlane; 04-29-2016 at 5:04 AM.
    Mark McFarlane

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Virginia and Kentucky
    Posts
    3,364
    I own the Hammer line of Felder and a few MiniMax tools as well. I prefer the MiniMax line. Consider after-service care and the availability of parts in addition to everything else.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Central WI
    Posts
    5,666
    Be sure to look at the guts of each machine, how heavy the slider extrusion is, and strength of base support. Bells and whistles are nice but it is the inner build that will determine how it perform after a few years. Dave

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Northern Neck Virginia
    Posts
    602
    i don't think you'll go wrong with either one. i went with felder as the show room and parts are less than 200 mi from me. there are commercial shops in the area that are running felder equipment so the felder tech are often not far. to the best of my knowledge there are no commercial shops running minimax equipment but there are probably some shops running scm. the scm stuff is a step up from the minimax stuff.
    both should be able to look in their data base for someone who might be willing to let you visit so you can put you hands one before making the decision.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    West Central Alberta, East of the Rockies - West of the Rest
    Posts
    656
    Jeff, I owned the CF531 Pro for several years, it is a very capable machine and it never let me down. I did eventually trade it in for a KF700 and AD741, the trade in value was almost what I paid for the new machine several years earlier plus the discounts from Felder when I bought the new machines. I sold the CF531 for two reasons, a full combo was awkward in my shop plus I fell in love with the new spiral cutter head on the J/P which wasn't available back then.
    I tend to agree with Felder MSRP being ridiculously high, but every so often they offer substantial discounts where they knock of several thousand dollars. On the other hand I'd say "you get what you pay for"
    Edit: I forgot to add, every Felder is custom built, you choose the configuration and options that suit your needs.
    Last edited by John Lankers; 04-29-2016 at 10:09 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Coppell, TX
    Posts
    908
    Jeff, if you are after a combo and cost is an issue, I know Felder are offering a large discount on the Hammer C3 Comfort package right now with quite a few bells and whistles included. Of course if it has to be Felder or MiniMax then ignore this

  10. #10
    Thanks to you all for the feedback. It is very helpful. I dug into the details a bit and now can't see why I would even consider the Felder. It is a little over 4K more and does NOT include a mortiser, moble kit, small fence or clamp element. The Minimax includes all those things. I just don't understand why such a large price difference. The Felder does included the Silent Power cutter head. But the Mimimax had the Tersa cutter which i think is very good and not a downgrade over the spiral. The Minimax pricing is about the same as the similar Hammer C3 model (maybe a bit higher) Which I think (maybe I'm wrong on this) the Minimax is a step up from the Hammer.

    The only thing I noticed in the specs that may or may not mean much is the weight of the Felder is higher and the sliding table mechanism looks to be a better desing band more robust. Now that is 100% from me looking at photos and online videos so I could be completely wrong. Would be so nice to kick the tires on these machines.

  11. #11
    Just last week I was trying to make up my mind on a Euro sliding table saw. What made the decision for me was seeing the machine, Minimax Si315 Elite-S in my case, in person. Once I saw the machine and looked it over I was sure it was the right choice for me. While not a combo machine, I feel like the decision process was quite similar. From my experience, Minimax machines might be available with a discount off list pricing depending upon the machine, availability, etc.

    I have a similar impression of Hammer - a step down from Minimax.

  12. #12
    I have looked at all three manufacturer's machines listed in this thread and have owned three SCM products, currently two. My Pal owns the CU300, four years old. My quick observations:

    SCM/Minimax has the heaviest castings (they have their own foundry, Felder/Hammer outsource castings)
    SCM/Minimax has the sturdiest sheetmetal cabinets (look on the inside of the machines and you will see what I mean)
    SCM/Minimax has the greatest working area specs, Felder/Hammer make you buy extenions - more $$$
    High end Felder have sophisticated electronic controls which I admit would be nice but not for the $ asked
    Felder likes to CNC machine parts that could be simply cast or outsourced as less fancy components. None of these bobbles makes the machine one bit more functional, nice to look at though.
    SCM/Minimax has the right price and represents the highest value
    Having owned SCM machines for over 20 years I can say that they are near flawless workhorses that pay for themselves in a busy shop.

    When I chose my machines Hammer were not robust enough, Felder were more in the mix but their pricing was several thousand beyond SCM. I bought the CU410 Elite S, awesome. I helped my frind set up his CU300, great machine in the 300mm catagory.

    I did buy a Felder branded power feeder.

    Let us know what you end up buying!

  13. #13
    I am just a hobby user , and got my CU300 last year.
    After using it for a year, I must say I am extremely happy with the decision I made.
    It is simple, heavy, and very accurate. I wouldn't have another machine unless it was a cu410 .
    When budget allows , I will be adding a MM16 or 20. I really like the way the company operates, it spends the money in the right places (castings , motors , steel) and not on marketing or glitz .
    I don't think you will be unhappy with the CU300.

  14. #14
    I'd agree that you'll probably do well with either manufacturer. My shop is predominantly Felder/Hammer...mostly because I've developed a really good working relationship with the crew at Felder USA in Delaware. I do have a Minimax bandsaw, which is just awesome, and they've been a real pleasure to work with as well. I'm very satisfied with both lines of equipment and I'm confident you will be pleased with either. I'll just throw this in...proximity of parts and service is priceless. There's never a convenient time for a machine to go down. I'm close enough to New Castle, DE that if they ship a part I'll have it the next day with regular UPS Ground. For me the Minimax parts come from much further afield...Georgia I believe. That can take days...or an overnight charge, which can be expensive if there's any weight to the part.

  15. #15
    I am (obviously) not at all un-biased but here are a couple of observations from the Minimax side of things:

    1.) I don't really have any unhappy CU300 owners. Everyone seems to love that machine. The only complaint I ever seem to hear is that a few guys have told me that they wish they would have gotten the 8.5' sliding table over the 5.5' slider. That's purely personal preference, however.

    2.) The instances where I have had a CU300 owner "upgrade" to a bigger/fancier/more advanced competitor's unit, I try to ask or understand why or what it was the person felt the need to do that. So far, I have never gotten an answer that had anything to do with woodworking. In other words, I have never heard, "The Minimax won't do this or won't do that". The answer I have gotten is along the lines of, "I just wanted to say I own that brand". Not that there's anything wrong with that. You should buy what you want. When we were shopping for a new car, my vote was for a Honda Fit. My wife wanted a Mini Cooper, however. I could not get a clear answer from her as to why. The Honda was less expensive, has a better reliability record, plus I know how to work on Hondas. The Mini was substantially more expensive, a worse reliability record, and I have practically no tools that can work on it but my wife "wanted a Mini", so that's what we bought. Only each one of us can decide our own motivations.

    The other machine you are looking at is also quite nice. You couldn't go wrong with either. Best of luck in your search.

    Erik
    Ex-SCM and Felder rep

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