Stanley No. 3 Iron not seating horizontally / frog lower on one side?

[Luke Dupont]

Just bought my first true typical, western style metal plane; a vintage Stanley No. 3.

I cleaned it up, sharpened it, and everything is good except that the frog does not seem to be square to the body of the plane.

The frog looks to be a bit rough / warn, and it seems to tilt slightly to one side (not sure if the problem is in the vertical or lateral axis), making the iron protrude significantly more on one side of the mouth than the other. I can, of course, compensate with the lateral adjustment lever, but that does leave me with a significantly tighter mouth on one side to achieve an even depth. I suppose this would indicate being out of square in the vertical axis, as if the frog is leaning to one side slightly.

The plane still takes perfectly good shavings, but I suppose this is something I will want to fix at some point, no?

Is there a way to mechanically adjust the frog so that it seats more squarely, or will I need to go in with a file and flatten it? I'm not really confident/comfortable with the latter option, honestly. Alternatively, perhaps I could shim it some how?

PS. I'm not very familiar with metal planes, so if I'm missing something obvious, do tell!

[Tyler Huber]

Not a "pro" by far.. but one thing that happened to me a few times was while putting the frog back on the plane, the metal piece screwed to the back bottom of the frog that slides into the frog adjusting screw wouldn't seat right. Sometimes the "clip" would go around the actual threads versus going in the groove that's cut towards the head of the screw. If that's not the problem then I would go back and double check there's no gunk out junk around the frog seating pads. It's easy to miss a little piece of old sap,dirt, shaving stuck to the mating surfaces. If all that is good, I take a candle and soot the mating surfaces on the frog that way you can put it on the plane, wiggle it slightly so it will show you what is touching and what isn't so you'll know where to file (if need be). I've had to do some folks work on planes and at first I was nervous, but if you know what you have to remove and do it little by little with frequent checks.
Tyler

[John Kananis]

You'll most likely need to use a file. File the frog not the bed, specifically, look at the first ridge from the bottom of the frog that seats on the bed. You can usually 'sse' the undulation or defect.

[Kees Heiden]

Are you sure the frog sits straight in the plane? In mine I can twist it left and right easilly, which makes it protrude uneven. Also chech if the edge on the blade is square to the sides. These are the basic things to check first before filing.

[Jim Koepke]

Alternatively, perhaps I could shim it some how?

Excellent idea to find where the problem may be. What others have suggested are also valid comments.

It would be helpful if you can post pictures of the problem. I have seen this problem before and is one of reasons I do not like planes later than a type 13.

It may be easier to get a replacement frog.

jtk

[don wilwol]

If it has the frog adjustment screw, the frig adjuster can hold it unsqure if not set properly as well.

[Luke Dupont]

Thanks for all of the input/advice!

I tried something following the points about "wiggle room" in the way the frog sits in the plane. I skewed, slightly, the metal piece that laps over the adjustment screw and then, when screwing the frog back in, wiggled it as much as I could in the opposite direction and screwed it down there.

It seems to have helped. My frog is almost square now - not quite, but not nearly as bad as it was. It is definitely a bit out of square physically, but it seems that with a bit of trial and error I can use the play in the tolerances to shift it into a good position.

[steven c newman]

Perhaps a thin washer under the low side? Place it over the hole where the bolt goes, before adding the frog.

The MAY be a bit extra paint/japanning on one side of the frog's seat. Wire cup wheel to polish the seat back to bare metal?

Take a square across the frog's seat, compare to the frog's sides.

[Patrick Chase]

Just bought my first true typical, western style metal plane; a vintage Stanley No. 3.

I cleaned it up, sharpened it, and everything is good except that the frog does not seem to be square to the body of the plane.

The frog looks to be a bit rough / warn, and it seems to tilt slightly to one side (not sure if the problem is in the vertical or lateral axis), making the iron protrude significantly more on one side of the mouth than the other. I can, of course, compensate with the lateral adjustment lever, but that does leave me with a significantly tighter mouth on one side to achieve an even depth. I suppose this would indicate being out of square in the vertical axis, as if the frog is leaning to one side slightly.

The plane still takes perfectly good shavings, but I suppose this is something I will want to fix at some point, no?

Is there a way to mechanically adjust the frog so that it seats more squarely, or will I need to go in with a file and flatten it? I'm not really confident/comfortable with the latter option, honestly. Alternatively, perhaps I could shim it some how?

PS. I'm not very familiar with metal planes, so if I'm missing something obvious, do tell!

Having read several other opinions to file this or that, I think the most important thing here is to figure out what's happening with the frog<->bed mating surfaces. To do that you would smear the contact surfaces on the bed with marking grease, test-assemble the plane, dismantle it, and see where the grease transferred to the frog. Small regions of contact correspond to hight points on either the frog or the bed (it will take some inspection to determine which), and may need be filed.

Under no circumstances should you file without first knowing for sure what is and isn't in contact (and you certainly shouldn't do so based on advice given sight-unseen on a forum). You might get lucky that way, but you're at least as likely to make it worse. Use marking grease and trust what it tells you, not what others claim.

[Warren Mickley]

I would certainly be wary of altering machined surfaces as Patrick suggests.

These planes usually have two screws going straight down through the frog and holding it to the sole of the plane. They are in slots so that the frog can be moved forward or backward, altering the mouth opening. Depending on the plane there is a little or a lot of play in these screws so that the frog can be twisted if the screws are slightly loose.

Loosening these screws and twisting the frog in the right direction and then tightening could solve your problem. You might be able to see that the frog is twisted by just looking at it. If the frog cannot be twisted to solve your problem it is possible that you could work on the sides of the casting (rough surfaces) so that it can. I think that faulty machining is very unlikely.

[Ray Selinger]

I've had a couple of planes that required machining the frog beds on a milling machine. The tricky part was measuring the height differences on the frog flats. One was a later model Record #5 1/2, the other a #5 Footprint cheaper model (Handyman) .

[Glen Canaday]

It will be pretty rare that an older plane will be so out of whack. Pics would be good, straight down onto the frog without the iron in it, of the back of the frog showing the orientation of the adjustment screw and plate, and maybe of the mating surfaces. Any ideas as to the problem will be purely conjecture without them. Someone may be right, some wrong, but it will be impossible to tell without the visual.