Sharpening: Keeping it Simple!

[Luke Dupont]

The more I sharpen, the more I'm preferring to keep it really simple. And, I do mean really simple.

Lately, I've actually just been using 400 grit sandpaper followed by the strop. The sandpaper cuts very fast, but leaves a very smooth, polished finish - especially as it wears, and then employing somewhat vigorous stropping as Paul Sellers demonstrates, I can get an extremely keen edge without going to any finer grits before-hand.

I'm really liking sandpaper. Especially because there's a whole bin full of the stuff on sale at Dirt Cheap currently

But, I've found that with sharpening, the finer the stone you use, the more difficult and time consuming it becomes to free-hand it. When I move to say, a 2000 grit stone, it becomes very difficult indeed because it's difficult to work the back down to the edge, and if you just try to work the edge, it's easy to adopt too high an angle. With lower grits, though, you can very easily keep the back down whilst getting to the edge, just sharpening free hand and making a slightly cambered bevel.

But more importantly, I don't see the need to go anymore than about 400 -- at least, not with sandpaper. Now, my coarser (cheap) diamond stones of comparable grit leave a much coarser, scratched up surface in comparison, which would take a lot more to polish out on the strop. So, I'm actually preferring sandpaper! I just tape it to a known flat surface (I use my desk usually, which I've checked with a straight edge), use it dry, and it works wonderfully. I do sometimes follow up with a higher grit, but I don't think it's necessary at all. I don't use a lubricant because I find it makes the paper weak, and I just don't like the extra mess it entails.

What I am amazed by is just how far you can go with the strop. It seems that you can stop at even a fairly coarse grit and carry it the rest of the way on the strop without much trouble, which really begs the question: why fool around with all of the finer grits in-between?

As a little aside, I had posted a thread about having trouble with stropping before. It turns out, it was in fact the compound I was using; the compound was very wet and loose, and didn't stick to the strop. This much movement allowed it to just instantly roll my edge any time I used it. I've since switched to the Green Chromium Oxide compound that I see everyone else use, and no more trouble! In fact, stropping is extremely easy. I can go quite vigorously without rolling my edge - though, I am pretty careful on the back of my chisels. I put leather on one side of my strop, and MDF on the other; I put it in the vise, and use the leather side on the bevel of my chisel, stropping about 50-60 times, fairly vigorously, and then work the back much more gently on the MDF side, and then a few very light passes on the leather side. This gives me a razor sharp edge, and is pretty easy to do; I haven't yet had any more problems with rolling my edge.

So, anyway! That's my current method. Quick, simple, and gets me very sharp tools with the least amount of hassle.

Do any of you have similar "very simple" methods?

[Malcolm Schweizer]

I did a video addressing grits and stepping up through the grits. It shows better why there is a need to do so as opposed to jumping right to the finer grits.

That said, if it gets you the results you want, then that's all you need- just make sure you experience a finely sharpened edge before determining what is sharp and what is not. My definition of "acceptably sharp" has changed since I learned to really hone an edge.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_psHMbYIQQ

[Normand Leblanc]

I used to spend a lot of time sharpening because I was using a guide and many stones. Since I do it free hand, I'm using a rough oil stone + a fine India and then the strop with the green compound. Takes 2-3 minutes that's it. So I agree with you, keep it simple.

I have a french video on my sharpening method
http://oldchips.blogspot.ca/2016/04/...harpening.html
but you don't need to understand french and it's only 3 minutes long.

[Jim Koepke]

This is just more proof of there being many ways to get to a sharp edge.

You might like a hard Arkansas stone compared to 400 grit sandpaper. Especially if you are employing the Paul Seller's method of creating a convex bevel with freehand sharpening.

For me a quick progression through two or three stones, oil or water, and a quick stropping works fine. My water stones are 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit. The oilstones are a hard Arkansas, a translucent Arkansas and a jasper polishing stone. My sharpening is aimed at creating a flat bevel. After stoning or stropping for me to be happy they need to pass a test of sharpness of at least being able to shave some hair comfortably or take clean, thin shavings of pine end grain without tearing out the underlying structure.

Everyone has a different influence on each factor in the sharpening process. My influence on stropping comes from a Chris Pye book on carving where he suggests not more than 10 strokes on either side of an edge when stropping. My strops are leather and are usually lain flat on my drill press table when in use. Sometimes they are at the bench so I can strop a blade when paring end grain.

I also have a few wooden pieces cut to shapes for stropping gouges. This is where a soft leather stop material is used to conform to the shape of the tool.

My ability to sharpen has improved greatly over the past 5-10 years. I am sure there is still a bit more for me to learn on the road to sharpness.

jtk

[Prashun Patel]

Timely thread!

Congratulations on finding a method that works for you.

I'm also working on a simple regimen. I have been forcing myself to free-hand. What I find is that initially having a hollow grind or wide bevel is nice so you can feel it. But after a while, the angle just gets easy to maintain without thinking too much about it. It just takes practice.

My 'simple' regimen is to hone on 4000, 8000 (using Shaptons, which only require a spritz), then a strop.

Going Commando makes it so fast, that I actually enjoy the process of re-honing before every session at the bench - at least with chisels.

[paul cottingham]

Yep, I use a belt grinder, followed by a 10000 grit stone. Simple, and sharp.

[Luke Dupont]

I did a video addressing grits and stepping up through the grits. It shows better why there is a need to do so as opposed to jumping right to the finer grits.

That said, if it gets you the results you want, then that's all you need- just make sure you experience a finely sharpened edge before determining what is sharp and what is not. My definition of "acceptably sharp" has changed since I learned to really hone an edge.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V_psHMbYIQQ

Though I'm still pretty new to this, my definition has changed as well, so I understand your point!

Maybe I'll do some testing at some point and see if I get a noticeable difference. I haven't watched your video all the way through yet (in the process of!) but, shouldn't the grit that matter be the grit which you end up at, and the grits in prior are just stepping stones to get there faster?

The thing about the strop is that, because the leather has a bit of give to it, it works the whole surface evenly, and easily. So, if you're sharpening free hand, as long as you're not trying to get out deep scratches on the strop, isn't it faster just to go straight to the strop as soon as you can rather than whittling away for a very long time on finer stones that mostly are not working the edge? Now, the story would be different if you're not cambering the bevel or are using a honing guide, or if you're not using a strop, I guess. But, I'll watch your video through and see if you didn't answer my question already

I used to spend a lot of time sharpening because I was using a guide and many stones. Since I do it free hand, I'm using a rough oil stone + a fine India and then the strop with the green compound. Takes 2-3 minutes that's it. So I agree with you, keep it simple.

I have a french video on my sharpening method
http://oldchips.blogspot.ca/2016/04/...harpening.html
but you don't need to understand french and it's only 3 minutes long.

Nice video! Very similar to how I'm sharpening. Also, love the way "Arkansas" sounds in French

[Luke Dupont]

This is just more proof of there being many ways to get to a sharp edge.

You might like a hard Arkansas stone compared to 400 grit sandpaper. Especially if you are employing the Paul Seller's method of creating a convex bevel with freehand sharpening.

For me a quick progression through two or three stones, oil or water, and a quick stropping works fine. My water stones are 1000, 4000 and 8000 grit. The oilstones are a hard Arkansas, a translucent Arkansas and a jasper polishing stone. My sharpening is aimed at creating a flat bevel. After stoning or stropping for me to be happy they need to pass a test of sharpness of at least being able to shave some hair comfortably or take clean, thin shavings of pine end grain without tearing out the underlying structure.

Everyone has a different influence on each factor in the sharpening process. My influence on stropping comes from a Chris Pye book on carving where he suggests not more than 10 strokes on either side of an edge when stropping. My strops are leather and are usually lain flat on my drill press table when in use. Sometimes they are at the bench so I can strop a blade when paring end grain.

I also have a few wooden pieces cut to shapes for stropping gouges. This is where a soft leather stop material is used to conform to the shape of the tool.

My ability to sharpen has improved greatly over the past 5-10 years. I am sure there is still a bit more for me to learn on the road to sharpness.

jtk

Indeed! I definitely think there is no "right answer" when it comes to sharpening, so it's good to explore many methods and find what works for you. Well, as long as you don't go broke in the process

Thanks for the recommendation on the hard Arkansas stone! I may actually try that. At some point, that will be more economical than sandpaper, and I haven't really taken to my Japanese water stone - I just find it more hassle than it's worth to keep it flat.

[Luke Dupont]

Timely thread!

Congratulations on finding a method that works for you.

I'm also working on a simple regimen. I have been forcing myself to free-hand. What I find is that initially having a hollow grind or wide bevel is nice so you can feel it. But after a while, the angle just gets easy to maintain without thinking too much about it. It just takes practice.

My 'simple' regimen is to hone on 4000, 8000 (using Shaptons, which only require a spritz), then a strop.

Going Commando makes it so fast, that I actually enjoy the process of re-honing before every session at the bench - at least with chisels.

I like that method too - I initially sharpened free-hand just like that; maintaining a straight bevel as best I could so that I could use that face to register against the stone. It definitely has its advantages, especially if you're using finer stones, and it works well with chisels or my thick Japanese plane iron. But I had real trouble employing it with thin western plane irons. That's part of the reason I just switched to a cambered bevel.

[george wilson]

Sharpening threads should BE BANNED for at least 12 months!!!!

[Lenore Epstein]

Though I'm still pretty new to this, my definition has changed as well, so I understand your point!

Maybe I'll do some testing at some point and see if I get a noticeable difference. I haven't watched your video all the way through yet (in the process of!) but, shouldn't the grit that matter be the grit which you end up at, and the grits in prior are just stepping stones to get there faster?

I'm pretty new to this too, but I've learned that when flattening backs and shaping and honing edges it takes much, much, much less time to remove coarser scratch patterns from coarse stones on an intermediate (4000-6000) one before moving to a polishing stone, which removes an infinitesimal amount of material.

But for routine sharpening I only need my Shapton Pro 4000 (if it's been a while) and 8000. Both are very dish-resistant, so flattening after this kind of thing takes about half a minute.

[Mark AJ Allen]

Not to say it's wrong, but I seen Paul Seller's stropping vigorously; my first impression was that it requires really good technique to not injure yourself, damage your strop or dub your edge doing that. He was a professional and old school apprentice, so no doubt, he's got the time in to make that work for him. I think it's impressive, and he makes it look simple.

Simple for me is a balance of setup vs. performance, similar steps, minimum mess. Oilstones is my prescription with Veritas Mk2. I don't care to win the freehand sharpening Olympics, so I don't mind the jig use.

[Luke Dupont]

Not to say it's wrong, but I seen Paul Seller's stropping vigorously; my first impression was that it requires really good technique to not injure yourself, damage your strop or dub your edge doing that. He was a professional and old school apprentice, so no doubt, he's got the time in to make that work for him. I think it's impressive, and he makes it look simple.

Simple for me is a balance of setup vs. performance, similar steps, minimum mess. Oilstones is my prescription with Veritas Mk2. I don't care to win the freehand sharpening Olympics, so I don't mind the jig use.

It's not that difficult, really. I think people are a little too afraid of the strop. Now, I did start off slower, lighter, and more controlled using Paul's method, and I have cut into my strop a few times, but the more I do it, the more I get the hang of it and find good control. As for safety, there's nothing to be concerned of. You should not have your body underneath your strop, nor should you be applying force towards yourself in any manner. It's also more controlled than it looks. Granted, I probably still don't use as much force as he does. I originally had a similar impression as you, but I've found it works.

Where I differ with my method, I guess, is that I'm having the strop do a lot more of the work, and that does require more vigorous stropping than most people employ. But, that's kind of my revelation here: you can strop pretty vigorously without dubbing your edge -- at least, if you are using the right strop and the right compound. The leather I use is somewhat firm, and the green chromium oxide sticks well to it. As long as that's the case, I don't think you will have to worry about rolling the edge, and your strop can potentially take over the work of some of your finer stones. As an aside, I do keep the angle of my bevel a little lower (I shoot for about 25 degrees), and I aim to stay just under that when stropping.

Of course, you still have to be quite careful on the back of your chisel, so a finer stone does come in handy there.

Anyway, give it a try, just as an experiment/learning experience! You might find you have good results.

I will say that I had bad results using a different compound, and I've also tried softer leather and other surfaces with too much give that did dub my edge. So there's definitely a balance to be found. One strop or compound may not work the same with one given technique as it does with another, I'd imagine.

[Normand Leblanc]

As an aside, I do keep the angle of my bevel a little lower (I shoot for about 25 degrees), and I aim to stay just under that when stropping
.

I get a 35 degree angle and I believe that my edge is stronger like that. I do agree that the leather has to be firm.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Though I'm still pretty new to this, my definition has changed as well, so I understand your point!

Maybe I'll do some testing at some point and see if I get a noticeable difference. I haven't watched your video all the way through yet (in the process of!) but, shouldn't the grit that matter be the grit which you end up at, and the grits in prior are just stepping stones to get there faster?

The thing about the strop is that, because the leather has a bit of give to it, it works the whole surface evenly, and easily. So, if you're sharpening free hand, as long as you're not trying to get out deep scratches on the strop, isn't it faster just to go straight to the strop as soon as you can rather than whittling away for a very long time on finer stones that mostly are not working the edge? Now, the story would be different if you're not cambering the bevel or are using a honing guide, or if you're not using a strop, I guess. But, I'll watch your video through and see if you didn't answer my question already




Nice video! Very similar to how I'm sharpening. Also, love the way "Arkansas" sounds in French

Technically you can go from a 400 to a 10000, but it would take all day to get the 400 scratches out. I address that in the video. You can very quickly progress from grit to grit.

As far as the finest stone being the one that matters- mostly yes, but you don't want a coarse stone that leaves uneven scratches that are hard to get out. I do tell people spend most of your money on finishing stones and then progress backwards in your purchasing.