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Thread: Sharpening: Keeping it Simple!

  1. #16
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    Since you are happy going from 400 grit to a strop, I'd like to suggest that you might be very happy with power stropping. One can go from a mangled edge to paper shaving sharp in seconds. In my case, I use my 1 x 42" belt sander with a leather belt and green compound to do my knives. I'm not steady enough to do irons & chisels with it though. If you have a slow speed grinder you can make an MDF wheel, mount it on the grinder and load it with green compound and then you get to skip the 400 grit sandpaper. Just a thought.

  2. #17
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    All power strops should be banned. Really. They make an edge that many THINK is sharp. Too dubbed to suit me.

  3. #18
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    I don't care to win the freehand sharpening Olympics, so I don't mind the jig use.
    Winning the freehand sharpening Olympics is not on my bucket list either. Many of my blades do not work with a blade holder for sharpening. So for me freehand was the way to go.

    The big advantage of a guide is one doesn't have to worry as much about digging into their stone and you can actually move the blade much faster with better control. The disadvantage is the time it takes to set up each blade.

    Whatever folks do, if it gets their edges as sharp as they want them to be, it is a workable system.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Winning the freehand sharpening Olympics is not on my bucket list either. Many of my blades do not work with a blade holder for sharpening. So for me freehand was the way to go.

    The big advantage of a guide is one doesn't have to worry as much about digging into their stone and you can actually move the blade much faster with better control. The disadvantage is the time it takes to set up each blade.

    Whatever folks do, if it gets their edges as sharp as they want them to be, it is a workable system.

    jtk
    There are actually many reasons one might choose to use a guide. Digging in is one of them, but not a huge concern once you learn a few technical tricks (side/diagonal sharpening, controlling pressure, etc).

    Repeatability and consistency are others. I personally use guides because I keep track of how every blade is set up, and use that information to make comparisons and improvements. If you don't know where you're starting it's really hard to figure out where to go, and I'm not at a level where I can freehand hone to within a degree.
    Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-03-2016 at 9:21 PM.

  5. #20
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    I like this device myself.







    Warner-Little-Wonder-Water-Motor.jpg


    Doesn't get much simpler than that.


    credit to doug berch's blog http://dougberch.com/sharpening-gizmosity/

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Belair View Post
    I like this device myself.







    Warner-Little-Wonder-Water-Motor.jpg


    Doesn't get much simpler than that.


    credit to doug berch's blog http://dougberch.com/sharpening-gizmosity/
    Wow, if only my shop had running water...

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  7. #22
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    I think it's great that you have found what works for you. I like reading about people's "sharp journey" as it reminds me that I still have much to learn. I'm in a weird spot with my sharpening. I have the Paul Sellers setup of course, fine, super fine. The super fine is ~1200 grit if I'm not mistaken. I then go to an 8000 Naniwa Snow White water stone and then a TFWW horse butt leather strop with no compound just to remove any traces of the burr.

    I have been experimenting with doing like Paul does and go to the strop after the super fine but I spend way too long on the strop. The 8000 leaves an edge that needs very little attention.

    As far as winning the freehand sharpening Olympics, guides are fine as long as you are using regular straight blades like chisels and plane irons, but the more you go down the rabbit hole the more it pays to learn how to free hand. Is there even a guide that can be bought to sharpen scrub blades or gouges? I do use a guide for bevel up irons, but that's pretty self explanatory.

  8. #23
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    Is there even a guide that can be bought to sharpen scrub blades or gouges?
    I have thought of a design which in theory will work quite well. The only problem is it takes a different holder for each size and sweep.

    Then there are the metric and inch versions...

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cherry View Post
    Is there even a guide that can be bought to sharpen scrub blades or gouges? I do use a guide for bevel up irons, but that's pretty self explanatory.
    A $10 Eclipse side-clamp guide works fine (with minor modification to bevel the outside edges of the wheel supports) for Scrub blades down to 3" radius.

    Tormek would argue that they have gouges all figured out, though I disagree because I prefer tapered in/out-cannel bevels - out-cannel in the center tapering to in-cannel as you move up the wings.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cherry View Post
    I think it's great that you have found what works for you. I like reading about people's "sharp journey" as it reminds me that I still have much to learn. I'm in a weird spot with my sharpening. I have the Paul Sellers setup of course, fine, super fine. The super fine is ~1200 grit if I'm not mistaken. I then go to an 8000 Naniwa Snow White water stone and then a TFWW horse butt leather strop with no compound just to remove any traces of the burr.

    I have been experimenting with doing like Paul does and go to the strop after the super fine but I spend way too long on the strop. The 8000 leaves an edge that needs very little attention.

    As far as winning the freehand sharpening Olympics, guides are fine as long as you are using regular straight blades like chisels and plane irons, but the more you go down the rabbit hole the more it pays to learn how to free hand. Is there even a guide that can be bought to sharpen scrub blades or gouges? I do use a guide for bevel up irons, but that's pretty self explanatory.
    I think not all grits are created equal.

    I also tried ending on a 1200 grit diamond stone, and it's much harder to strop to a mirror finish from there than it is to strop from 400 grit sandpaper.
    When I use diamonds, I finish up on 2000 or 2500 grit sandpaper before stropping.

    I guess I might be finishing much finer than 400 grit because, as the sandpaper wears and clogs (which I allow it to do, as I don't use lubricant), it becomes much finer. I just go ahead and use this to my advantage, normally. But even a fresh 400 grit sheet of paper will leave a smoother surface than a 1200 grit diamond stone, in so far as visible scratches that you will want to take out with the strop are concerned.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Luke Dupont View Post
    I think not all grits are created equal.

    I also tried ending on a 1200 grit diamond stone, and it's much harder to strop to a mirror finish from there than it is to strop from 400 grit sandpaper.
    When I use diamonds, I finish up on 2000 or 2500 grit sandpaper before stropping.

    I guess I might be finishing much finer than 400 grit because, as the sandpaper wears and clogs (which I allow it to do, as I don't use lubricant), it becomes much finer. I just go ahead and use this to my advantage, normally. But even a fresh 400 grit sheet of paper will leave a smoother surface than a 1200 grit diamond stone, in so far as visible scratches that you will want to take out with the strop are concerned.
    Luke,

    Many folks starting down the sharpening road have been sold or have bought into only a mirror finish can be sharp. The bottom line is that ain't so. Shinny is not necessarily sharp. It can be but most important is the scratch pattern on both surfaces and do they truly met at an acute angle. I've seen and tried to use irons with a mirror finish so bright and shinny to almost blind you but have a scratch pattern on the cutting edge that looked more like a saw than a chisel. They would not cut warm butter nor hold up pass the first contact with wood. Conversely I've used irons where the back and bevel have a near matt finish and the iron was very sharp and held up very well to contact with wood.

    Oh, one question. Are you using DMT diamond plates?

    Of course as with all thing wood, YMMV.

    ken

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Koepke View Post
    Winning the freehand sharpening Olympics is not on my bucket list either. Many of my blades do not work with a blade holder for sharpening. So for me freehand was the way to go.

    The big advantage of a guide is one doesn't have to worry as much about digging into their stone and you can actually move the blade much faster with better control. The disadvantage is the time it takes to set up each blade.

    Whatever folks do, if it gets their edges as sharp as they want them to be, it is a workable system.

    jtk
    I love this- "winning the freehand sharpening olympics..." that's funny. I agree with everything you just said.

  13. #28
    "...freehand sharpening olympics..."

    I was surprised how easy this becomes with a just a little bit of practice. I have an MKII jig too, and i love it. It's not my intention to say one way is better than another, just to suggest that people who have not free hand sharpened give it a try; dedicate one beater chisel to it and each time you sharpen another blade with the jig, practice a few freehand strokes on the beater.

    On some chisels it is actually easier for me to do this, then to double check that I'm square in the jig and pressing evenly on both sides; the ridigity of the jig can sometimes work against me. Freehanding has been surprisingly easy to feel and keep square.

    I know these sharpening threads can get contentious; it's not my intention to take a side, just to encourage more arrows in the quiver.

    Also, if you find out how to hold mortise chisels in the MKII, LMK. I started on freehanding out of necessity with these.

  14. #29
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    honingjigsfullsmall.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Cherry View Post
    I think it's great that you have found what works for you. I like reading about people's "sharp journey" as it reminds me that I still have much to learn. I'm in a weird spot with my sharpening. I have the Paul Sellers setup of course, fine, super fine. The super fine is ~1200 grit if I'm not mistaken. I then go to an 8000 Naniwa Snow White water stone and then a TFWW horse butt leather strop with no compound just to remove any traces of the burr.

    I have been experimenting with doing like Paul does and go to the strop after the super fine but I spend way too long on the strop. The 8000 leaves an edge that needs very little attention.

    As far as winning the freehand sharpening Olympics, guides are fine as long as you are using regular straight blades like chisels and plane irons, but the more you go down the rabbit hole the more it pays to learn how to free hand. Is there even a guide that can be bought to sharpen scrub blades or gouges? I do use a guide for bevel up irons, but that's pretty self explanatory.
    I have an old Record with a ball for a roller that works good for short radius cambered irons like Scrub and Jack irons. It's the red one in the picture-not sure why the radius on the ball doesn't show up in the picture. I wouldn't use it on the chisel in the picture, that was just the closest one at hand when I took the picture.

    I freehanded for a long time, but finally figured out it took more time in the long run. Now, unless for unusual circumstances, I use a guide to keep all the edges to an exact angle, and the grinder hasn't been turned on in maybe a year.

    I also stopped doing microbevels, and never put any kind of bevel on the back of anything. This has been a 42 year progression to this that works well for me.
    Last edited by Tom M King; 05-04-2016 at 9:36 AM.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    Luke,

    Many folks starting down the sharpening road have been sold or have bought into only a mirror finish can be sharp. The bottom line is that ain't so. Shinny is not necessarily sharp. It can be but most important is the scratch pattern on both surfaces and do they truly met at an acute angle. I've seen and tried to use irons with a mirror finish so bright and shinny to almost blind you but have a scratch pattern on the cutting edge that looked more like a saw than a chisel. They would not cut warm butter nor hold up pass the first contact with wood. Conversely I've used irons where the back and bevel have a near matt finish and the iron was very sharp and held up very well to contact with wood.

    Oh, one question. Are you using DMT diamond plates?

    Of course as with all thing wood, YMMV.

    ken
    Ah, well, no actually. I have a two quite cheap diamond stones. I guess they may not really be comparable to DMT stones.

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