Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 85

Thread: White Oak Trestle Desk Journal

  1. #46
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    N Illinois
    Posts
    4,602
    Go slowly..White oak can be challenging...sharpen your chisels and plan ahead as Prashun said..Outline first
    Jerry

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442

    New update guys!

    Alrighty so I been holding off on this update a bit just cause I really havent got alot done. I wish I had the mindset like some guys, but I get in the shop and my mind wanders. I end up overthinking things, taking it slow to ensure I dont mess something up too bad, yada yada. Also, Im slipping down the carving slope and its everything I can do to pull myself away from that nice and soft basswood hahaha. But alas, the white oak awaits...with not so loving arms! I dont know about yall, but there are some wood types that I just love the smell of. Walnut is probably my favorite that Ive worked with thus far, it just fills my shop with a wonderful smell. This oak, I dont know man it reminds of mustard or something. Well, I got to smell alot of mustard as I cut the tenons! So without further ado:



    Here's a little shot of what I hope will be the leg assemblies.



    Mortise layout. Now the design Im following is from a book loaned to me by Mike Allen. They use twin mortise and tenons....more on that later!



    Ray Iles 3/8" Mortise Chisel doing work! I had some issues with this chisel if youve been following along. TFWW has great customer service and I am expecting a new one to be delivered soon.





    So this is how I ended up doing the majority of the mortises. I basically removed an 1/8th inch or so and started my mortise. This was a tip from Prashun and Derek that I decided to give it a go. I liked this method.



    All mortised are done on the leg assemblies. What you dont know is that this took me forever and a day. I got faster after doing a few but between the fact that the chisel kept chipping and this white oak....well I spent a good four hours just chopping. A little AC/DC and GnR goes a long way when chopping mortises.



    Setting a trough for the carcase saw to rest in for the tenons.



    I will say that you get some nice clean lines when laying out with white oak.



    Quite amazing how much sawdust is produced when sawing this many tenons. More sawdust than Im used to anyways.





    Okay so this is my first tenon Im trying desperately to fine tune it so it will fit. I think I sawed a little to far away from my lines as I didnt want to mess up. I think in retrospect, a single stub might have been enough. I suppose this will be stronger.

    Alright, I hope Im not overloading you guys with too many pictures. I got one more for ya if your still with me...



    Not a great picture, as it doesnt show just how much the rays really pop, but its the only one I took. I finally found some 6/4 QSWO and its beautiful. Gonna make a real nice top I think. Thats all for now guys. Cheers!

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    Nice work Mike!

    I have some tricks for the double tenons, WRT fitting. I use marking gauges called 'Kebiki' they're a double bladed marking gauge, I set one for the inside tenon and one for the outside tenon, then use the same reference face for both. If the material for mortised member and the tenoned member are the same thickness then I dont change the gauge at all, use the same settings for both mortise and tenon.

    That way I'm not second guessing my marks and you know if a straight edge can touch both lines than the surface is good.

    Before you insert the tenon, make certain you're chamfering the tops of those tenons.

    Double tenons in white oak are far from '5 minute' jobs, that much is certain.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  4. #49
    Great pix and progress, Mike. I was wondering last night where you were in the project. I know you know this, but align those boards for best planing... I wouldn't go nuts maximizing ray fleck from board to board. QSWO grain matches pretty easily in the end.

    I've analyzed both white and red oak using mass spectroscopy. Oak (red and white) contains acetic and butyric acid. This is why it can smell like ketchup (not mustard) to feet, and anywhere in between. It's often a "I cant' decide if I hate or love it" smell. It's these acids that help it react to metal and water and other chemicals and makes it prone to (intentional or unintentional) chemical staining.

    The acids tend to dissipate over time, and there are lovely, creamy lactones that are prevalent in white oak that give it a mossy, mouth watering aroma that is what a lot of people associate with aged, oak firewood.

    Last, when it's burned - both during cutting and in a fire, more 'campfirey' compounds are generated. This is the aroma that pervades a commercial shop.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Nice work Mike!

    I have some tricks for the double tenons, WRT fitting. I use marking gauges called 'Kebiki' they're a double bladed marking gauge, I set one for the inside tenon and one for the outside tenon, then use the same reference face for both. If the material for mortised member and the tenoned member are the same thickness then I dont change the gauge at all, use the same settings for both mortise and tenon.

    That way I'm not second guessing my marks and you know if a straight edge can touch both lines than the surface is good.

    Before you insert the tenon, make certain you're chamfering the tops of those tenons.

    Double tenons in white oak are far from '5 minute' jobs, that much is certain.
    Thanks for the encouragement Brian! I didn't snap any pictures, but it sounds like I used a similar technique with regards to the layout of the tenons. I used the Veritas dual wheel gauge. The material is the same thickness and all marks (tenon and mortise) were made from the same reference face. That's one reason I have the painters tape in addition to the more traditional face and edge marks. The only difference is I only have one gauge. It was a bit tedious, but I just marked all mortises and tenons closest to reference face, then came back and did all the others. That process actually took a bit believe it or not.

    In the interest of learning something, what is the purpose of chamfering the tenons? Place for glue to go perhaps?

    As always, your wisdom and time is well appreciated!

    Quote Originally Posted by Prashun Patel View Post
    Great pix and progress, Mike. I was wondering last night where you were in the project. I know you know this, but align those boards for best planing... I wouldn't go nuts maximizing ray fleck from board to board. QSWO grain matches pretty easily in the end.

    I've analyzed both white and red oak using mass spectroscopy. Oak (red and white) contains acetic and butyric acid. This is why it can smell like ketchup (not mustard) to feet, and anywhere in between. It's often a "I cant' decide if I hate or love it" smell. It's these acids that help it react to metal and water and other chemicals and makes it prone to (intentional or unintentional) chemical staining.

    The acids tend to dissipate over time, and there are lovely, creamy lactones that are prevalent in white oak that give it a mossy, mouth watering aroma that is what a lot of people associate with aged, oak firewood.

    Last, when it's burned - both during cutting and in a fire, more 'campfirey' compounds are generated. This is the aroma that pervades a commercial shop.
    Hey Prashun, I wanted you to know that I tried the old drill and pare technique for the mortises. Couple things went awry, I discovered how important a fine thread auger bit is with hardwoods and that I don't have one. I ordered one from TFWW so I can give the method a proper chance. The other thing I noticed is paring the material left behind is hard to do in this stuff. I ended up just literally pounding this chisel through the mortises. It was bad. I would literally take a couple sacks with the mallet and it had already chipped. I must have sharpened this thing 15 times or so. That's with the recommended 30-35 degree secondary bevel. Mines closer to 35 if I had to guess. Using the same 1/4" chisel in the same stock leaves me with a chisel begging for more. Must just be the temper in this chisel.

    Its funny you mention not going crazy aligning the fleck. Every time I head out the garage towards my car, I keep looking at the rays and take mental notes about how I'm gonna arrange it. I think the board in the middle is closer to rift sawn, as its rays are Lot less pronounced and the endgrain appears to be running at about 60 degrees.

    Thanks for the info on why I get that smell from white oak haha! Too bad my sniffer is all messed up, don't know my mustard from my ketchup. Im actually in the same camp as you, I can't decide whether I like it or not. Part of me dislikes it, but part of me finds it pleasing. I hope I don't have to burn any, but if I do I'll cherish the chance to buy some more lumber ��

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    Mike, chamfering the tops encourages the joint to start well. With softer woods you can create a compression fit, you can with oak as well but much much much less compression.

    Oak splits pretty easily so I keep the compression to near nothing.
    Last edited by Brian Holcombe; 05-26-2016 at 8:57 PM.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    Mike, chamfering the tops encourages the joint to start well. With softer woods you can create a compression fit, you can with oak as well but much much much less compression.

    Oak splits pretty easily so I keep the compression to near nothing.
    Ahh I see, that's great advice. Will do that from here on out.

  8. #53
    Mike,

    The table is looking good. Brian is correct, WO does not compress much and it is easy to split. Don't ask how many WO pin boards I've had to replace . Stu at Tools From Japan sells a cheapo dual beam marking gauge for something like $16 USD, it is crude, no where near as nice as Brian's, but it works well and would make the marking out easier.

    Once more....Good work,

    ken

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by ken hatch View Post
    Mike,

    The table is looking good. Brian is correct, WO does not compress much and it is easy to split. Don't ask how many WO pin boards I've had to replace . Stu at Tools From Japan sells a cheapo dual beam marking gauge for something like $16 USD, it is crude, no where near as nice as Brian's, but it works well and would make the marking out easier.

    Once more....Good work,

    ken
    Thanks Ken, appreciate you taking a look. I got something unrelated I been meaning to ask you, gonna shoot you a pm here in a sec.
    I think this might be the one Brian has? http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/...oducts_id=2036

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    I use a Kinshirou which you can't get anywhere unless you're willing to convince (with a large check) a collector to sell one....I also have one from Matsui Measure;

    http://matui.shop-pro.jp/?pid=33081325

    It truly gives up nothing to the Kinshirou, but the Kinshirou is something very special being hand made.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  11. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Carlsbad, CA
    Posts
    2,227
    Blog Entries
    2
    Nice work Mike! Once you've chopped those big notices in Oak, everything else will be down hill!

    I look forward to the rest of your build.

    Cheers, Mike

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442

    White Oak...the wood that turned me into a hybrid woodworker!?

    Well, it has been a crazy couple months guys! I mentioned in an earlier post that I was gifted a thickness planer. Well I tried it....and sorta liked it hahahha. I decided to buy a 6" jointer and I had a coupon for 25% off a harbor freight item. I told myself if Home Depot would honor it, Id buy that Ridgid 4512 from them. I'll be damned if they didnt honor it after all. So aside from the guilt of murdering electrons occasionally, I am very much coming to terms with the new additions. I still very much enjoy hand tools and I think starting this craft with the hand tool only approach will, if nothing else, allow me to fall back on the "back to basics" method of doing things when need be. Clearly a 6" jointer aint gonna do everything I need for the rest of my days, so my planes should still get plenty of work. I also prefer smoothing as opposed to sanding.

    I digress, The table/desk is near done aside from finish and a special surprise. Finish should be applied quite soon and I am editing a rather long video( need to do a time-lapse) that I hope to keep a secret from the wife until I present the desk at her retirement ceremony at Camp Pendleton late September. The qswo top should look fantastic after finish is applied. Please feel free to comment, critique, complain, etc.




    The only chisel I had that would fit between the twin tenons for waste removal was a Japanese chisel that Brian Holcombe sold me a while back.



    The twin tenons were not as difficult to pull of as I thought and Im glad I persevered through the process.



    Very handy little shoulder plane but I always seem to prefer a chisel here. Everytime I think this tool needs a new home, I use it and decide to keep it.



    I found out the hard way that pipe clamps (on the bottom of the glue-up) has a reaction with the glue and the tannins (sp?) in white oak. It left black spots wherever it had a reaction. They were easily cleaned up while flattening the top.



    Anyone thats ever done this knows how much work it is haha. Good sharp blade makes it alot more fun to be sure! I also discovered that there are some characteristics I would like to add to my future bench. Wider and no tool tray! Experience is certainly the best teacher.



    I made these wooden turnbuttons, I think theyre called, from walnut scrap to secure the top to the legs. I used a router to mortise the slots for the buttons.



    This was a dry fit to get final measurements for the through mortise and tenon for the stretcher.



    My daughter was kind enough to snap some photos of the mortise process.



    Cleaning up the tenons was a quite lengthy process. Because of the length of said tenons, I had to saw them with a panel saw.



    This is a portion of the mortise layout for the angled wedge. I quite enjoyed this process. There was a little victory dance inside of me when the wedges got fine tuned and fit!



    Here she is assembled and right side up. She is currently sitting, assembled but upside down again, on my bench. I try to add a personal message on everything I build for loved ones. This is what I am doing at the moment. In the past I have written a message and then dated it in a hidden from plain view area. As I have recently taken up carving, I am adding a carving on the underside of the desk top before applying a finish. Stay tuned to see that soon. Thanks to the people on this board for their knowledge and for being willing to share that knowledge. Perhaps one day I can give back what I have taken!

  13. #58
    Looks nice. Next you know you will be using festool dominos instead of tenons

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Princeton, NJ
    Posts
    7,254
    Blog Entries
    7
    What is a festool domino

    Mike, looks great! Glad that the chisel is coming in handy as well, those Tataki's are a handy chisel to have if you do this sort of joinery all the time. I end up using a long mortise chisel in place of that sometimes.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Temecula,CA
    Posts
    442
    Quote Originally Posted by Reinis Kanders View Post
    Looks nice. Next you know you will be using festool dominos instead of tenons
    Not if my wife has anything to say about it lol!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •