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Thread: Long Japanese parer with issues. I need suggestions.

  1. #1

    Long Japanese parer with issues. I need suggestions.

    I have a 19" long, 30mm Japanese paring chisel, with a tricky problem. I need opinions on how to fix it. (Brian, are you reading this? )

    Here's the patient:









    I assume this is a typical Japanese tang design, though I don't know that for sure. I'm not brave enough to try to take it apart. (Not without expert instruction, hence this thread.)

    Look at where the bolster meets the ferrule. It is loose. The ferrule itself is seated firmly to the handle, but the main neck is slightly loose in the ferrule. It doesn't move side-to-side, but moves up-down freely, maybe 2-3 mm. You can see in the pics how it's hanging low, from gravity.The resultant movement at the business-end is at least 1/4".

    There is a 2" crack in the handle itself, right at the ferrule, but this crack does not compress if I clamp it.

    I rarely use this chisel, & when I do a little duct tape does the trick, but I'd like to fix it, and do so correctly.

    Can anyone send me down the right path?
    ----------------

    Also, as you can see clearly in the third pic, the neck (shank?) is quite curved. I think it may have been forged that way. Again, this is not a huge problem, you get used to it very quickly, but I sure wish t was straight.

    Would you attempt to straighten it somehow, (it's probably soft / wrought iron) or leave it be?


    THANKS.
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 05-05-2016 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
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    Alan, seeing these pics, the only way to save the patient is to replace the handle.

    Sorry for the bad news.

    Stan

  3. #3
    ^ I kinda' like your response on the other thread better! (I couldn't delete that thread.) Could you repost it here so we can discuss?


    If it's the worst-case scenario, then any idea what kind of wood that would be? I doubt I could even obtain any, here in the USA, but it would be nice to try. I have no lathe, but I guess I could use rasps for such a simple thing. - but what are my chances of making a proper tang hole, with no drill press?
    Last edited by Allan Speers; 05-06-2016 at 12:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post
    ^ I kinda' like your response on the other thread better! (I couldn't delete that thread.) Could you repost it here so we can discuss?


    If it's the worst-case scenario, then any idea what kind of wood that would be? I doubt I could even obtain any, here in the USA, but it would be nice to try. I have no lathe, but I guess I could use rasps for such a simple thing. - but what are my chances of making a proper tang hole, with no drill press?
    Alan:

    I have posted my response to the other thread below.

    But to your other questions first.

    1. The wood is probably Japanese Red Oak (Akagashi). Unlike American Red Oak, it is not open grained and makes an excellent handle. Getting hard to find nowadays, and it has always been more expensive than the White Oak variety.

    2. It isn't hard to make a handle for a paring chisel. Start out with a stick at least 2x as large as final dimensions. Drill the hole by hand/eyeball, or use a jig (another board with a right angle hole the size of the bit drilled on a drill-press). Smaller than the tang of course. Then put a dowel in the hole projecting out, and using this as a guideline, shape the stick with planes and spokeshaves. Shave the inside of the hole into a tapered square with chisels. If you don't have skinny chisels, a piece of sharpened scrap metal or an old putty knife the right width will suffice.

    Any wood will work for a paring chisel since strength is not an issue.

    Stan

    Alan:

    The Patient requires major surgery, but my preliminary diagnosis is the condition is not fatal. (Pre-op comment; Further inspection has revealed that the Patient's condition is fatal. Make sure Patient's health insurance is in-force, that the Patient has no lawyer relatives, and that the Patient has filled out organ/component donor card.)

    Fold newspaper or cardboard, and wrap this over the cutting edge, and tape it in place. If you have 6 fingers on one hand, and don't mind a little blood however, you can skip this step.

    Mark a dot on the handle's butt with a pen aligned with the flat (ura). This will help you realign/reassemble the handle/blade correctly.

    Holding the chisel by the neck, rap the ferrule on a block of wood at a point 45 degrees from the plane of the flat. Repeat a couple of times, then do the same on the opposing side. Then do the same on the other diagonal. The handle WILL loosen. This process will not damage the chisel.

    Now compare the depth of the hole with the tang's length. Since the handle is cracked, it is likely the tang was forced into a hole too shallow. If it is too shallow, drill just the bottom a few millimeters deeper than the tang should sit.

    Now reinsert the tang into the hole, and check for slop. I suspect there will be quite a bit.

    Make shims the shape of the tang flat from cardboard (cardboard is wood too) or from slips of wood to fit into the hole to align the tang properly.

    Reassemble.

    You can straighten the NECK by bending it, but remember that more than one chisel has been broken through ham-handedness, injuring the ham-handed offender in the process. Do not apply a bending moment anywhere past where the blade flairs from the neck and has high-carbon steel laminated to it. Small increments. Remove the handle before doing this, and be careful not to bend the poor tang. It is very weak.

    The chisel now needs some therapy, the equivalent of a woman going to a spa and hairdresser. Chisels have feelings too, and appearance is critical to self-esteem doncha know.

    Refinish the handle. Sand and refinish the ferrule with burnt silk, or gun blue. Gently sharpen her. Finish up the polish on a natural stone that makes the jigane a smoky grey, and the steel a hazy silvery white. Ummm.. Sweet.

    Tell her that you've been a no-good hound dog for letting her languish so long, that you love her and only her, and that all those other chisels before her mean nothing to you. A teary glimmer in your eye would not go amiss at this point.

    Stan
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 05-06-2016 at 3:21 AM.

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    Alan:

    You don't have a lathe, and neither do I. But with a little clever thinking, we can turn our inability to turn to our advantage (does that make sense?). For instance, there are shapes and profiles you can make with a planes, spokeshaves, knives, and gouges you cannot make with a standard lathe (vs a pattern lathe).

    I have recently used some paring chisels with special handles with a somewhat oval shape. They are very quick to orient in the hand, and won't roll off the workbench. Beautiful shape too. Double tapered octagonal is another classic.

    Maybe you could carve a nekid lady!

    While not a chisel, I can give you an example with pictures of a piece of practical furniture every piece of which would normally be shaped to finished dimensions with a lathe.

    When I was living on the Armpit of the Pacific (Guam), I needed a stool for my garage workshop. I was sick of the cheap Chinese-made junk wooden stools I used to buy, and then throw away when they loosened up, and so decided to make something better, something that would not become sloppy, and that would be lighter in weight, less clunky, and more stable. I spent some time researching designs, and found Michael Dunbar's article in PW about the Windsor stools he used to keep his student's bottoms above the floor when he taught.

    "Perfect," I gleefully giggled. But the next second I muttered, "Drats! I don't have a lathe!"

    Instead, lathe be damned, I decided to carve every inch of the stool by hand using planes, spokeshaves, gouges and knives into what is called a "birdcage" or "bamboo" style, with compound tapered octagonal legs all slightly different from each other. Just to be consistently preverse, I made the seat octagonal too, instead of round, and carved the depression in the seat to imitate a sagging leather top.

    You could not finish-shape the components of this stool with a lathe no matter how hard you tried.

    I bet you could come up with something even better for your new chisel handle.

    Stan

    PS. Made from Honduras Mahogany, this stool is very comfortable, and as tight now as the day I made it. The Windsor chair is a work of genius! I finished it with milk paint as Mr. Dunbar recommended. This was my first time using milkpaint. Wow. It only improves with time and wear and paint spatter from other projects! I try to keep it covered in sawdust most of the time so my wife won't "reassign it" to her sewing room.

    DunbarStool1.jpgDunbarStoolTop1.jpg
    Last edited by Stanley Covington; 05-06-2016 at 3:29 AM.

  6. #6
    Great stuff, Stanley. Thank you.

    Yes, I have spokeshaves & all other such tools, so this will actually be fun since I don't do curved stuff that much. Maybe an excuse to finally make a saw horse.

    I really would like to use Japanese Oak, though. My ancient ancestors are Italian, but still .... Maybe I can find a source, or maybe some kind soul reading this thread can sell me a blank?


    More questions: (for anyone)

    1: I WOULD like to straighten the thing, if possible. Is there a "known" way to do this? I'm thinking of just laying it sideway on wood and hitting with a hammer, but that might chip the edge of the blade.


    2: Ugh, I forget number 2. I've been drinking too much sake, tying to get into the proper mindset.

    Oh wait, I remember now: If this looseness is caused solely by the cracked wood, why is the ferule tight? Does that make sense?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allan Speers View Post
    Great stuff, Stanley. Thank you.

    Yes, I have spokeshaves & all other such tools, so this will actually be fun since I don't do curved stuff that much. Maybe an excuse to finally make a saw horse.

    I really would like to use Japanese Oak, though. My ancient ancestors are Italian, but still .... Maybe I can find a source, or maybe some kind soul reading this thread can sell me a blank?


    More questions: (for anyone)

    1: I WOULD like to straighten the thing, if possible. Is there a "known" way to do this? I'm thinking of just laying it sideway on wood and hitting with a hammer, but that might chip the edge of the blade.


    2: Ugh, I forget number 2. I've been drinking too much sake, tying to get into the proper mindset.

    Oh wait, I remember now: If this looseness is caused solely by the cracked wood, why is the ferule tight? Does that make sense?
    1. Lay the neck between two wooden stickers. Tang and blade floating. Lay a longer stick (2x4 for instance) across the neck, with the far end fixed to and shimmed above the surface of the bench top, and the other end free. Apply downward pressure to the free end.

    Alternately, you can wack it with a wooden or nylon mallet, Murphy be damned.

    Without seeing the thing disassembled, and at this distance, I cannot say with certainty why it is loose, but it seems likely that either the hole or tang are buggered. If it just the hole, life is good. If it is the tang, I hope you are good with a welder.

    Stan

  8. #8
    I like your style, brother !

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    My advice is to take Stan's advice

    The neck does look bent and there is a good chance that whatever force caused that to happen also split the handle. I'm curious to see whats inside, have you opened it up yet?
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

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    Looking at your first picture, my thought is that the tang is bent, not the neck of the chisel. But then I've never even seen, much less handled such a chisel.

  11. You might consider that the bend is built-in to offset the handle and keep the handle clear of the work when a long housing dado is pared or some such. With such a chisel, it may possibly be intended to be used like a timber framer's or boat builder's slick (which have handles even more offset to keep the hand clear of the work in use). Then again, I may just be having another senior moment.
    Last edited by James Waldron; 05-06-2016 at 9:41 AM.
    Fair winds and following seas,
    Jim Waldron

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    Allan,

    I am in the process of making tool handles myself. In my case I am redesigning my shave horse which is slowing the process down. Still I have made handles for axes, adzes, planes, saws, a very "handy" skill set to have. I have split: ash, white oak, maple, hickory, privet....I also have small trees I have taken down. I have a collection of pieces at various stages. As Stanley so aptly illustrates above chair & table legs as well as tool handles can be made with relatively simple hand tools; drawknife, spokeshaves, rasps, planes...

    Green wood is easy to work with these tools and easily acquired. Green stock can be worked in a small fraction of the time it takes to plane & work hard, dry hardwood. Simple drying kilns will dry wood of this size in a matter of days. In a chair class I took at Highland Woodworking, the Highland kiln was too small for a class of 10. Peter Galbert found an enclosed area under some steps, put a bright light in it and threw a blanket over the opening. Our class dried our chair legs and seats in that quicky kiln. I am working on something a little easier to use. In the interim I store green pieces in a plastic bag with wood shavings slowly letting moisture out.

  13. #13
    That is a great looking stool!

    Quote Originally Posted by Stanley Covington View Post
    Alan:

    PS. Made from Honduras Mahogany, this stool is very comfortable, and as tight now as the day I made it. The Windsor chair is a work of genius! I finished it with milk paint as Mr. Dunbar recommended. This was my first time using milkpaint. Wow. It only improves with time and wear and paint spatter from other projects! I try to keep it covered in sawdust most of the time so my wife won't "reassign it" to her sewing room.

    DunbarStool1.jpgDunbarStoolTop1.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reinis Kanders View Post
    That is a great looking stool!
    Thanks. It works pretty good as a sawbench too in a pinch!

    Stan

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    My advice is to take Stan's advice

    The neck does look bent and there is a good chance that whatever force caused that to happen also split the handle. I'm curious to see whats inside, have you opened it up yet?
    Not yet, but I'll definitely post pics as I work on it.

    thanks.

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