Pat, I like the reference length. A dozuki is a long saw and it gives you a great visual reference to cut by. I used the LN saw and like it enough but always found myself leaning on the dozuki after some time.
Contributor
Pat, I like the reference length. A dozuki is a long saw and it gives you a great visual reference to cut by. I used the LN saw and like it enough but always found myself leaning on the dozuki after some time.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
[OP]
Contributor
So, Brian, what are your thoughts on this one: Rockler Dozuki Dovetail Saw $48. Maybe you missed my previous reply - was curious your source for the saws you mentioned (below) so I could look them up and price them out. Was it TFWW?Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe
"I have a couple dozukis;
Nakaya Eaks crosscut 210mm
Bessho Jiro crosscut 240mm for hardwood
Mitsukawa rip cut 240mm for hardwood.
I may add another Nakaya Eaks 210 for rip cut they're cheap and well recieved."
Contributor
Pat, did you receive my PM? I have no experience with the rockler saw but I sent over some sources.
Bumbling forward into the unknown.
Member
Pat, I don't know if your Razor saw is configured for a pull cut or if you have any Japanese style pull saws, but this might be an opportunity to add one. I use all western saws, and love my little Adria DT saw, but there are times when the one Japanese pull saw I own comes in handy. Cutting wedges is an example. Enjoy your new saw whatever the flavor. Bill
Contributor
I find all the saws you listed as too small for my hand. Grammercy & Lie-Nielson too skinny, Veritas not enough space between the horns, etc. If your hand is large ( > 3.75" ) across or xtra small I suggest you absolutely handle the saw before buying. Proper hand fit is a twitchy thing. I have a saw from Isaac Smith with his next to biggest handle which fir better than the one we expected would work best - go figure. Japanese style saws are largely exempt from fitting requirements.
Member
The Veritas is hard to beat for price/performance. It's reasonably well-balanced, has a good dead-straight plate, and has good ergonomics (at least for me). The only type of user who would be likely to be disappointed by the functionality is somebody who's "advanced" enough to want aggressive rake but hasn't figured out how to file their own saws.
The aesthetics are a different matter. If you're looking for "heirloom" tools then you're probably not going to like the Veritas very much.
One DT saw I wouldn't touch at all is the Cosman. I can't imagine paying $300CDN for a cookie-cutter saw with a plastic (oh sorry, he calls it "resin") handle. If you want that progressive toothing there are better options within that sort of budget.
Contributor
FWIW Bad Axe offers several sizes of handle.
Member
I have a number of LN saws which I have been happy with, including the dovetail saw. A few months ago I got a Bad Axe Beast Master and have been using it with greater frequency, even for tasks it is not well suited to. Given the preference I've developed for the Bad Axe I'm intending to sell all my LN and switch. I like George's suggestion of having 2 dovetail saws.
I first learned to use Japanese saws and while I prefer them for some tasks they weren't as comfortable for me, also a Bad Axe saw is cheaper than a handmade Japanese saw.
Member
Why not just send your L-Ns to Mark Harrell for sharpening? He'll charge you more than he would for one of his own, but it's a lot cheaper than buying all new saws and will get you the same results in the end, assuming the ergonomics are OK.
I have a Bad Axe Sash saw, and while it's quite possibly my single favorite saw I also recognize that the only unique aspect that impacts function is the tune. Even that's not all that special - I've finally taught myself to do a decent imitation of Mark's "hybrid" tooth geometry, and one of my LV Tenon saws now cuts almost exactly like the sash...
Backsaws are brutally simple things, with not that much to functionally differentiate them once you get beyond a certain "threshold" quality level. There's nowhere near as much differentiation as there is between plane designs for example. When I read reviews of saws both here and in magazines I can't help but suspect that the rankings mostly reflect tune and the reviewer's specific ergonomic preferences.
Obviously ergonomics are a different matter, but preferences there are so individualized that I doubt you're going to get that much from this thread...
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-18-2016 at 10:45 PM.
Member
His saw was rated best in class by FWW I have one of his saws and is great. Patrick have you even picked one up or is this just your prejudice.
Member
I've finally taught myself to do a decent imitation of Mark's "hybrid" tooth geometry, and one of my LV Tenon saws now cuts almost exactly like the sash...
Patrick; any chance you can post a photo showing the hybrid teeth you filed on your LV Tenon Saw. A quick brief on the process you followed would also be helpful.
Stewie;
Member
You can always make a new handle that fits your needs and sharpen the saw to suit you if nothing else works.
Member
I wonder how many people have multiple hybrid saws rather than than having dedicated cross and rip filed ones? or all of the above. I can see having one saw: a hybrid filed one; but why have hybrid and dedicated rip and cross cut saws? What's the rationale in adding a hybrid saw to an existing collection of saws? I've tried the Bad Ax saws and they definitely are slower cutting. They look nice, though!
Last edited by Mike Brady; 05-19-2016 at 11:22 AM.
Member
The premise of your comment seems to be that zero fleam is ideal for rip cuts, the traditional 20-25 deg is ideal for crosscuts, and everything in between is a compromise that isn't optimal at anything.
FWIW (probably not much) I've come to think of fleam as more of a continuum. As you increase it you trade speed for better cut (particularly exit) quality. I personally like hybrid geometries for "near rip" cuts like tail cuts, and also when ripping woods with really screwy grain. In both of those cases I'm willing to sacrifice some speed but not a lot to limit splintering at the exit. On a related note one unusual thing Mark Harrell does is to put ~5 deg of fleam on his "rip" saws. I haven't tried one, but a lot of people swear by them.
Admittedly such preferences end up being highly subjective, and the fact that the hybrid saws feel "smoother" than rip saws may be unduly influencing my opinion.
Stewie, I'll post pix when I get a chance.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-19-2016 at 11:06 AM.
Member
I did have all of my saws resharpened, one by Mark and the rest by LN. There are only 2 which I feel work exceptionally well. One is the LN dovetail and the other is the beast master, although I did have to send it back for retuning when I first received it. No distinction was observed between the one done by Mark and others by LN. One of the LN tracks off-line but I haven't taken the time to send it back. I have always had either a rip or crosscut filing, the beast master was ordered rip but arrived hybrid. Perhaps it is the fact that I am unfamiliar with hybrid filing which makes me more enamored with the Bad Axe saw, but it does appear to track better for ripping. As for the cost of replacement, LN saws on ebay sell for about 90% of new so I will lose almost nothing.
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