Never square; I can't joint straight.

[Luke Dupont]

I'm writing this after having reduced a board by an inch or more in width, having been unable to joint it square.

This happens every project that I attempt. I cannot joint a 3/4 board square. I am always, invariably, twisted to one side, and after hours of toiling, I just wind up reducing the width to the point that it's unusable.

This is easily the most frustrating aspect of woodworking. I dread starting any project where I have to square up the stock. Ok, well, I know I said that about sawing square, and that might be up there as well, though I am getting much better at that since I started using knife walls and a tenon saw.

I notice a few things when I'm hand planing the edge of a board:

1) I always taper the board away from me if I take full length strokes. If I take short strokes starting at the far end and working backwards, as I recently learned, it sort of helps, but I have a hard time getting the plane to bite to the same thickness as it did at the end (I assume because it's in a sort of concavity at that point), and I just wind up adding more inconsistencies and twist because of all of the uneven strokes I'm taking.

2) I can't feel vertical. I always, invariably and without fail, find myself planing lower on one side, or worse yet, imparting twist. Trying to correct this, I will literally spend hours and come away with nothing more than a board that is an inch thinner and still out of square.

I have ensured that my plane iron is square. And, I understand that to make corrections, you are supposed to overhang the edge of the plane, take a pass or two, and then go back down the middle. Invariably, I will do this 3, 4, or 5 times and find no difference, then go back and try again and find that I've imparted twist or over compensated, etc. etc.

It baffles me that I can spend an hour or more doing this, and never even happen upon squareness by accident.

I'm wondering if, perhaps, it's not to do with making corrections, but planing square to begin with. I can't feel square, and I don't feel that I have the control of the plane that I should have. I've tried both heavy and light touches, and oh so many ways of gripping the thing. The lighter I go the more feeling I have (though, I still can't really tell if I'm vertical), but the less the plane bites at the start of the board, leading to more of the taper problem. Moreover, and I thing the biggest problem, is that the width of the board is so narrow that it's very difficult to balance my plane perfectly on top of it. I have somewhat better luck jointing 2" stock, though even that is not easy.

I'm half tempted to just make a jig to clamp on the side of my plane, as much as I'm embarrassed to say. Or maybe jointing with the board horizontal, as I've seen some Japanese joiners do. I would rather develop the skill to actually feel and plane straight, of course. I have, at this point, read all kinds of advise, and watched all kinds of videos on the subject, so I don't really know what I'm hoping to gain by posting here.

I'm also half of the mind to record a video of myself. Maybe someone can spot what I'm doing wrong better than I can.

As an aside, I can get fairly square IF I have gauge lines to work to. But that first edge will easily have rendered my board far too narrow (and me far too frustrated!) before I ever get it square. This leads me to believe that it's the lack of any reference or ability to feel "square" that's getting me. I kind of feel like I'm balancing the plane on a see-saw whenever I'm jointing.

[Pat Barry]

1) what tool are you using for this joitning process?
2) how close is close enough? Ie: nothing is ever perfect
3) what is driving the need for perfection? ie: edge gluing for panels or?

[Luke Dupont]

1) what tool are you using for this joitning process?
2) how close is close enough? Ie: nothing is ever perfect
3) what is driving the need for perfection? ie: edge gluing for panels or?

1) In this case, I was using a Stanley No. 3 on a fairly short piece. I've had the same trouble on a variety of planes (a Japanese plane, and a few other wooden or western planes), and a variety of pieces. Much the same results in all cases.

2) I don't know. That is a good point. Maybe I'm being too much of a perfectionist. But, it is important in some cases where you want the edges to fit squarely, at say a 90 degree angle to another piece. The difficulty is, that with such a narrow piece, if you're a millimeter, or even half a mil low on one side, that can translate into say 10 degrees or so.

3) If I were edge gluing, I wouldn't worry so much about squareness. I'd just joint both pieces at once and they'd match regardless. Basically, I just want nice 90 degree corners; partially for aesthetics, and partially for functionality, when I want to have that edge register against another at 90 degrees.

It's somewhat of a matter of just not feeling that my level of accuracy is within acceptable standards. I'm not a huge stickler for having everything perfect, but sometimes things are just off enough to potentially cause problems.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I am sometimes slow to understand, so, I want to be clear on what you are asking....

Are you trying to square an edge, or make a face flat? I think that you are talking about squaring the thin edge of a board, not making the face flat...

If this is correct, then I have a couple of suggestions.

Use a square and mark all of the "high points" that are out of square. More specifically, you are marking the place where you want the blade to take it down.
Can you create and use a guide? For example, this:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/HARDWARE...16&cat=1,41182

Then again, they have this fancy thing as well

http://www.leevalley.com/us/HARDWARE...08&cat=1,41182

But, back to the edge jointer...
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/te...jointing-edges

Oh wait, a home made one
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/te...jointing-edges

Not sure if I can link to it, but www.craftsy.com has some tips to improve shooting, which includes putting the board down flat and running your jointer on its side to cut the edges square.


www.startwoodworking.com also has an easier handplaning build block, but I am not sure if I can link directly to that article either.


If I totally missed the point and you are talking about flattening the face....

[paul cottingham]

Honestly, I bought a magnetic fence for my jointer plane. I don't really. Care what people think of them, it works great, and takes all the guesswork out for me. Waste a lot less wood too. I have very little feeling in my right hand that isn't pain, so practice wasn't going to change it.

seriously. Go check it out. http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,41182,41716
dont listen to the naysayers.

[Prashun Patel]

I also tend to taper the board downward on the far side. Plane slowly, one stroke at a time. My problem was that I was not ENTERING the cut strongly. This means I wasn't exerting the same pressure throughout the board. I now try to imagine the board as 1 foot longer on each end. You need sufficient pressure on the toe on entry such that your blade 'bites' from the start and doesn't airplane into the cut. Conversely on the leaving side, you need to exert pressure on the tote so the plane does not dip forward and cut too aggressively there.

"exert" overstates it. It's really about NOT exerting adverse pressure at the beginning and end.

As for jointing square, that's the easy part Take one pass shifting your pressure to the high side. Then measure with a square up and down the edge, and repeat as necessary. I find fixing square is much faster than fixing flat. As a result, it's easy to overcompensate when fixing square; the trick is doing one pass at a time (assuming your kind of close...) and checking your work.


above all, practice and be persistent. Keep telling yourself that if Prashun can do it, *I* ought to be able to do it. It's the truth.

The quality of my planing increased dramatically after watching David Charlesworth's dvd's. His strokes are deliberate and slow, not huffy-puffy and sweaty as mine has always been. If you realize the plane is quite efficient at what it does, you will realize it takes fewer strokes and less downward pressure to accomplish than intuition previously told me.

Last, how are you holding the work? Proper support along the length is critical for me to getting an even cut. So long pieces in a face vise can come out tapered. Alternatively, a tail vise can cause pieces to flex if clamped tightly. So either support the piece in face vise at its ends, or use the tail vise lightly - almost as a stop.

I have a jointing fence for my jointer and have stopped using it because it requires set up and awkwardly checking it for square and then adjusting it. And if I have to joint from the other side, then disconnecting and reattaching it is a non-starter. So, I'm forcing myself to learn free-hand. Just like sharpening. No judgment on you, just impatience over here.

[bridger berdel]

Put a fence on it.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Luke,

For small thin pieces I almost always use a shooting board. Quick, easy and it requires only a little thought process.

For larger pieces held in a vise there are a few techniques often brought into the mix. The one I use has been pretty good, for me, at getting square without a lot of effort.

It is discussed toward the end of this post:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...47#post1515247

It starts with end grain and runs into a #113 Circular plane before finally getting into squaring edges.

The last image, of me using a jointer, shows my thumb pressing on the area right above where I am cutting a narrow track. This is to help prevent the plane rocking when taking a narrow cut. The next cut will ride on this track and take a slightly wider shaving. It is a kind of 'seat of the pants' reasoning where your eye sees how much out of square the work piece is divided by one's feel for the thickness of the shaving determining how wide of a shaving you need to make on the first and subsequent passes. My experience has also taught me when doing this regularly it is almost natural to get to square. When there is a lot of time between shop work, my nature tends to take a little retraining.

One of your comments is that it seems you mostly lean to the same side. This was also my problem. Being a little off felt comfortable. So I worked at leaning a bit the other way, yes it felt uncomfortable at first, just a little at a time.

jtk

[Sean Hughto]

Three thoughts to get you going:
1. table saw with a decent fence and a good ripping blade - glue ready joint.
2. match planing
3. jig the planes with a shooting board on the benchtop or by attaching a fence to the plane.

[Adam Stevens2]

I'm having this problem as well, though I suspect that it's much to do with how I am holding the work than anything. I tend to use my moxon vise to hold boards for edge jointing and I think it has a tendency to make the board lean ever so slightly away from parallel once it's cinched tight. I tend to wind up over-correcting in a couple of different ways and I am probably making more work for myself than I need to. Does anyone have any experience with this? The other option is that I am really genuinely hopeless at this process.

[Jim Belair]

I check for square often, and if I'm struggling, pencil mark where I'm trying to remove and, if necessary, where I try to not remove material. This gives nearly instant feedback.

[Normand Leblanc]

1) If you taper the board it's because either you are not putting enough pressure at the beginning (not very much pressure is needed anyway) or your iron need sharpening. Most likely the latter.

2) I can't feel it either but I have no problem correcting it.

Is your small board out of twist? If not, maybe when you clamp it in the vise it get straightened and then when it's removed from the vise it twist back.

If you take a heavy cut, no matter what pressure you apply - left or right - the plane will follow the twist. As an example, when I want to square a board, once it's flat, I reduce the depth of cut and, knowing which side is higher, I run my plane on that side but not the other side. All the other side sees is the sole where there is no blade. Works perfectly for me.

Many years back I bought a fence for my LV jointer. Tried it then put it away. Too much trouble to set-up.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

If it truly has to be perfectly square, I always use a shooting board (for small stuff), or a fence (for large stuff). Some people will make fun of you for that. Personally, I don't care what those people think. Your mileage may vary.

[Curt Putnam]

IMO use a fence until learn how to control the taper over the length of the piece. Once you learn the transfer of pressure from toe to heel you are half way there. Is your vise plumb? Meaning when you clamp a board into it, is the board exactly vertical? If not that could be part of your problem. Regardless, the rest is take a stroke, check with the square, rinse and repeat until done.

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I also tend to taper the board downward on the far side.

Yeah, I have had a lot of trouble getting it straight. I appreciate your advice on this...