Clean up /suck broom

[Mike Holbrook]

I am about to toss two depot brand vacs an 18 gallon Lowes monster and a smaller Shop Vac. The plastic is brittle and falling apart. I tend to sneeze and get nasal irritation from shop dust. It seems that larger capacity vacs suck air through all the dust etc. in the bag and stink things up, even if they are filtering the dust. I am thinking about something not so big. I also want something that can move between benches, cabinets, tool stands...better than a big monster vac. Something with good attachments and a decent hose.

I also have a Festool CT22 which I use with my Festool tools. The CT22 is great at what it was designed to do but the attachment system,capacity and mobility may not be the best for general clean up. I was checking out Fein's but I understand the new models are not what the older ones are.

I am wondering what fellow posters use?

[Brian Holcombe]

I use the festool but only after throwing away the bulk of the shavings by hand. The capacity is a little light, but the vacuum works well and is quiet.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Craftsman 350 horsepower turbocharged large vac. (Okay, so maybe it's only 6 "peak" horsepower.) Home Depot small vac. I really want this for nooks and crannies- http://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee...0-20/205482386
hint dropped to wife already.

[george wilson]

All that "Peak horsepower " is a lot of bunk. It is impossible to run 6 HP on 15 amps@110 volts,period!! There just isn't enough amperage. Ever take an old vac apart and look at the armature of the motor? It will have a shaft of 1/4" to maybe 3/8"(and,that's hoping for too much!

If you want a DECENT vac that will be just as powerful as the biggest Sears vac,but not noisy at all,bite the bullet,save up your pennies,and get a FEIN vac. Not the smallest one,the mid size one. It comes with about a 1 1/2" LOOONG hose. But,what I like is that you can jam a plastic Sears 2 1/2" hose into the hole left when you take the original hose off( WHAT? Do they make SMALLER shavings in Europe?). I REALLY like that you can connect a sander to the plug in in the vac,hook up the sander's hose to the vac,and when you turn the sander on,the vac comes on. And it goes off a few seconds after you turn the sander off! I have used it with my Bosch electric planer(with the help of a few coils of sand paper). It effectively gets all the planer's chips!

[Derek Cohen]

I have both a 5 year-old Fein Dustex 25 and a newish Festool CT26E. The computer in the Fein packed in about 9 months ago, and the cost of a replacement was very high. Instead of going down that path with a machine that I was not altogether happy (noisier than advertised - I needed to wear hearing protection, and the shape made it more difficult to store), I bought the Festool. Ironically, I had a brainwave short after this, and by-passed the computer - now it works again, but in single speed and minus the automatic on-off.

The Festool is a great machine. Quiet - I do not need hearing protection. Much more suck than the Fein - I collapsed the bin for a Dust Deputy with the Festool, which I never could do with the Fein. The Festool also enables a long-life bag to be attached - expensive up front, but cheaper and easier in the long run.

After purchasing the Festool, I began to find a great many discussions on the Internet about its sensitivity to static. Apparently, the Festool is earthed differently to the Fein, and requires static-free hoses .... perhaps this is a bit of hysteria on the 'net. Even Dust Deputy came out with a black static-free model for the Festool. Personally, I do not buy into all this, and have never experienced static in the hoses, but then I do not run sanders, which are the main culprits.

Keep in mind as well is that the Festool is much more expensive than the Fein. Both are excellent. Still, the Festool is better.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[george wilson]

I must assume that anything Festool makes will be superior!! But,I haven't had a need for a more expensive vac than the Fein @ about $350.00(?). The Festool is close to TWICE that,and I don't know if it'll take the 2 1/2" hose like the Fein accidentally does.

My Fein HAS to be at least 25 years old,plus we used two of them for longer than that at the toolmaker's shop. They never have gone bad. I'll have to Google Fein Dustex 25. I didn't know my model had a computer in it. WHY does everything these days HAVE to have a computer in it? ARRRGH!

Edit: O.K.; looked up the Fein Dustex 25. It is starting to resemble the Festool(square!) I really prefer mine. I don't want to have to buy new bags whenever they get full. Mine just takes a Clean Stream filter,too. I put a cloth bag over that to catch most of the stuff and protect the rather expensive Clean Stream.

I HOPE my Fein(round shape) holds up!I don't know if the Dustex will accidentally accept the 2 1/2" hose,though I could machine an aluminum adapter if needed. But,you can't. Would a WOODEN one do?

I DO use the small diameter hose on portable power tools. Looks like the quality of the Dustex's hose has gone down hill a bit. Mine LOOKS(at least) better built(It's out in the shop,so a guess).


I'll have to look up what a Festool costs. By the way,I somehow have TWO of those $950.00 Fein half sheet sanders. They come with a CRAPPY looking bag that looks like plain cloth. I made an aluminum adapter for one so it will take the Fein hose(WHY doesn't this sander take the Fein hose to BEGIN WITH??? These sanders REALLY NEED the hose because they run 20,000(or more) RPM,and cut like a belt sander!! I'd NEVER,EVER go back to an ordinary 3000 RPM sander,like I used for years before.


Edit #2: Looked up Festool vacs Looks like you'll spend $600.00+ for a good model. For the Fein,$300.00+. They have all gone SQUARE!! WHY?; a ROUND one is easier to drag around obstacles in the cluttered shop. I don't care for the square shape AT ALL!

Well,I'm 75. Maybe the Fein will outlast me.

[Derek Cohen]

George, the Fein and Festool use the same size hoses, have the same fitting dimensions ... are pretty much interchangeable. The Festool comes supplied with a static-free hose - but it is too narrow (27mm) for much. At least 36mm is needed for most tasks. Of course the Festool hoses are pretty expensive!

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Jim Ritter]

I run the Festool vacs in my shop but put in a separator so the bags don't fill up so fast. It's been years since I changed the bag and maintains better suction.
Jim

[george wilson]

But if I got a Festool,I'd be missing out on that GREAT orange color that Feins have!! I can use the Fein to frighten small children at Halloween!! What is it with the Germans about COLOR!!! Remember the HOT GREEN INCANDESCENT colors you'd see on some of their cars?

[Kirby Krieger]

I run the Festool vacs in my shop but put in a separator so the bags don't fill up so fast. It's been years since I changed the bag and maintains better suction.
Jim

Hi Jim,

Can you expand on your practice a little bit? Which separator; how set up? Mobile? Hose diameters? One to each dust-producing center? Gates?

Thanks. I'd like to take advantage of the current Festool vac sale, and use a separator, and I haven't worked out the details. Hearing from someone who has would be quite helpful.

—Kirby.

[John Schtrumpf]

I scoop up the shavings with a plastic dustpan, then I use a Dyson slim (I live in an apartment).

[Mike Holbrook]

Great discussion!
George, I have read that some woodworkers stopped using Fein because: they are no longer made by Fein in Germany but some large vacuum producer, they no longer have variable speed motors (not sure what this actually does for a woodworker)....I agree with you about the round design being better in a shop with lots of objects to maneuver around. The canister designs also tend to have four casters where the square designs tend to have two larger rear wheels that prefer moving straight forward. I imagine Festool uses the square designs so their systainers, sortainers and tools have a place to sit. My idea was to buy a canister type design like the Fein for general clean up. I am just concerned about the negative recent reviews I am seeing about the Fein vacuums. I realize though that the "features" some people hate may actually be a benefit to others.

Derek, I am going to be a nit picker here but, I think the Fein has a 35mm hose vs the 36 for the larger Festool hose. I have read a couple things that suggest that the Fein will work with "other 35mm" attachments but the Festool may not. I have not experimented as I do not have anything with a 35mm hose. I like to keep the 27mm hose on my vac most of the time as I use my T55 and Carvex saws regularly for construction projects. It is an inconvenience to switch hoses, especially when the attachments do not seem to fit the hose well. I am also reading that the newer Fein's actually have a lower db rating than the Festools. I also realize that much of the testing is designed to fog rather than clear up these issues.

I bought the expensive Festool stainless steel attachment kit. The 27mm hose seems to fit inside of Festool tool ports and the attachments. The 36mm hose I have, that came with the kit, seems to be designed to fit over the attachments but it is hard to slip over the collars on the stainless steel tubes. The 27mm slides inside fairly easily but it tends to come out during use too. I just searched Bob Marino's Festool site on the internet and I do not find an adapter. Maybe I should give Bob a call?

Jim, I am not sure what a separator is? Unless it allows use of the vacuum without a bag? I tend to have sneezing, from dust, so I am trying to eliminate as much of it as I can, which is why I have tried to use vacuums with bags that filter dust.

Yes, there is a Festool vac sale going on, which does get them closer to the Fein's price. It also frequently means Festool is about to come out with new models/designs.

[george wilson]

bad news about the Fein not being made in Germany any more. Now I must hope more than ever that mine holds up! I really don't want to have to spend the money for a Festool right now. We had to buy a Carrier air conditioner,heat pump and furnace for the house. And my wife fainted and fell on her face into the bathtub at midnight. Her stupid doctor casually recommended that she DOUBLE her sleeping pill amount. That was $8,000.00 in costs right there(plus a night in the emergency room! Fortunately,she broke nothing. But WHAT a bloody mess!

Too much happening as you can see. I'm not rich after a career in the museum. But,I got to do what I wanted to!

[Jim Ritter]

Hi Kirby, when I started my business 29 years ago I bought a canister ShopVac with a stainless steel canister, wheels, handle, etc. The motor finally crapped out so that part got tossed but I saved the canister. I made a plywood top with a hole in the center for the hose to the vacuum. The canister body has a hose fitting that angles on the inside setting up a cyclonic action. I did fit the underside of the plywood top with a regular ShopVac filter but plan to swap that out for a Thein baffle. It's easy to empty the canister so it gets emptied often. I can take some pics if necessary. No gates, it's mostly used with Festool sanders or direct vacuuming of small boat bilges, bench tops, occasionally floors but sweeping mostly suffices for the floor. Let me know if you want pics I'm heading to the shop soon.
Jim

[Derek Cohen]

Great discussion!
George, I have read that some woodworkers stopped using Fein because: they are no longer made by Fein in Germany but some large vacuum producer, they no longer have variable speed motors (not sure what this actually does for a woodworker)....I agree with you about the round design being better in a shop with lots of objects to maneuver around. The canister designs also tend to have four casters where the square designs tend to have two larger rear wheels that prefer moving straight forward. I imagine Festool uses the square designs so their systainers, sortainers and tools have a place to sit. My idea was to buy a canister type design like the Fein for general clean up. I am just concerned about the negative recent reviews I am seeing about the Fein vacuums. I realize though that the "features" some people hate may actually be a benefit to others.

Derek, I am going to be a nit picker here but, I think the Fein has a 35mm hose vs the 36 for the larger Festool hose. I have read a couple things that suggest that the Fein will work with "other 35mm" attachments but the Festool may not. I have not experimented as I do not have anything with a 35mm hose. I like to keep the 27mm hose on my vac most of the time as I use my T55 and Carvex saws regularly for construction projects. It is an inconvenience to switch hoses, especially when the attachments do not seem to fit the hose well. I am also reading that the newer Fein's actually have a lower db rating than the Festools. I also realize that much of the testing is designed to fog rather than clear up these issues.

I bought the expensive Festool stainless steel attachment kit. The 27mm hose seems to fit inside of Festool tool ports and the attachments. The 36mm hose I have, that came with the kit, seems to be designed to fit over the attachments but it is hard to slip over the collars on the stainless steel tubes. The 27mm slides inside fairly easily but it tends to come out during use too. I just searched Bob Marino's Festool site on the internet and I do not find an adapter. Maybe I should give Bob a call?

Jim, I am not sure what a separator is? Unless it allows use of the vacuum without a bag? I tend to have sneezing, from dust, so I am trying to eliminate as much of it as I can, which is why I have tried to use vacuums with bags that filter dust.

Yes, there is a Festool vac sale going on, which does get them closer to the Fein's price. It also frequently means Festool is about to come out with new models/designs.

Hi Mike

The Fein is definitely 36mm and the same size as the Festool. I have both machines, use both, and the hoses are completely interchangeable.

A 27mm hose does not permit as high an air flow as the 36mm hose. I have both connected to a separator via a 50mm hose. The Fein uses a Dust Deputy, and the Festool uses a static-free Dust Commander (with a static-free 50mm hose and connector). So set up, I use it with a router. Both the machines also have variable speed. This is important when using a sander (I have a Festo ROS - pre Festool! - which rarely gets used). Too much suction will create stiction. It is this feature that I no longer can use on the Fein. Generally, the Festool needs to be at half suction to use the Dust Commander, otherwise it will collapse its bin.

Both have 0.3 micron HEPA filters. Nevertheless, I would not consider either to be cleaning the air - it is the dust below 0.3 micron that does the damage. I wear a mask when I use either, and then clear the shop by opening front and rear doors to create a through draft.

George, sorry to hear about your wife. I hope she is OK now.

Edit: Oh, the other feature that both these vacs have is the ability to power another machine - say, a router or sander - which will automatically switch on the vac when the machine is on, then power off when the machine is switched off. George, does yours do that?

Regards from Perth

Derek