Clean up /suck broom

[Matt Lau]

John, I used to do the same thing as you (except that I used a secondhand HEPA canister vac.)
Worked well, but noisy. Now I use a second hand HEPA nilfilsk attix 8.

Derek-- I have one of the older German made Feins--a turbo 1 with autostart that I bought secondhand.
It easily collapsed my dust deputy extra-thick bockets before I put a mdf stiffener inside.
In the old Japan Woodworker store, I found it to be at least as powerful as the CT22 and significantly quieter.

Downside-- the handle sucks (no pun intended. hurts the hand), systainers don't stack on it, not a festool. form factor and hose storage not as convenient.

Powerwise, I'd rate Nilfisk > Fein = Festool
Sound (quietness)= Nilfisk > Fein (round tool assist one) > Festool
Form factor/storage/convenience= Festool > nilfisk >>>Fein --I seriously have been thinking of getting a ct26 just because of how terrible hose storage is for the Fein.
My Fein hose gets clogged pretty easy (I have the small one).

-edit-
I just realized that I didn't answer your question.
I'd recommend attaching a big 2.5" shopvac hose to suck up the shavings. Furthermore, the attachments are much cheaper than festool, fein, bosch.
Both Fein and Nilfisk will readily take the big hose. I highly recommend a pre-stage separator of some sort. I use a dust deputy, but a homemade thein baffle would work well too.

Lastly (since this is the neanderthal forum and you're all a bunch of rugged, self-sufficient individualists), Matthias Wendel has some great ideas to copy.
Meanwhile, I'll get back to working on the hammer handle that I've been working on for the last few weeks.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Matt

My Fein also collapsed a standard DD. I added a plywood stiffener, which did the trick. In a thick plastic 25 lt screw-top bin, the C26 collapsed the sidewalls when on full suction. The Fein could not do the same.

I would not purchase the C26 for its ability to store a hose! I do not bother to try and wrap mine up and store it in the Festool since it is such hard work to put it there. Get the Festool because it is a better machine.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mel Fulks]

But if I got a Festool,I'd be missing out on that GREAT orange color that Feins have!! I can use the Fein to frighten small children at Halloween!! What is it with the Germans about COLOR!!! Remember the HOT GREEN INCANDESCENT colors you'd see on some of their cars?

George ,since you are usually kindly ANSWERING the questions, I am glad to give back..... It's because ARMIES never wear lime green or orange!

[Eric Schmid]

There are a number of very good vacuums sold now which appear to be based on the Alto Attix design. Bosch, Makita, Dewalt and Nilfisk all make a vacuum with similar features at a lower price point than the Attix. In the $200 range you can get a Nilfisk Aero with tool activated start and self cleaning filter. In the $5-600 range the other vacuums come into play.

As you are aware the new Fein Vacuums are not the old Fein vacuums that garner so much praise. They are likely still a high quality machine, but the local dealer here has dropped the line in favor of the Bosch, Makita and Nilfisk. A bit of a red flag for me.

The self cleaning filter technology found in the Attix "clones" listed above allows you to omit the bag and still maintain relatively clean filters. For general cleanup I don't know if the little Nilfisk Aero can be beat. It does not have a large container, however. We usually sweep the big stuff and vacuum the fines, so I've not found it to be an issue.

I also have the Festool vac with the tradesman cleaning set. I share your frustration with the design. Once assembled it works fairly well, but I don't want to spend 10 minutes assembling and breaking down poles to sweep for 10 minutes. First time I installed the floor sweep the plastic receiver cracked. Okay for site work, but a bit awkward for dedicated shop use.

I believe most of the hose ends are close enough to the same size to be interchangeable. An adapter for some, a little tape for others seems to get the job done. I even have a hose set up using 2.5" hose directly connected to the CT. I would find a cleanup hose and floor sweep that you like and adapt it, if necessary, to the vacuum you prefer. Any HEPA rated vacuum (not just the filter) is going to do what you want; keep the fine dust from escaping the vacuum container.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

All that "Peak horsepower " is a lot of bunk. It is impossible to run 6 HP on 15 amps@110 volts,period!! There just isn't enough amperage. Ever take an old vac apart and look at the armature of the motor? It will have a shaft of 1/4" to maybe 3/8"(and,that's hoping for too much!

If you want a DECENT vac that will be just as powerful as the biggest Sears vac,but not noisy at all,bite the bullet,save up your pennies,and get a FEIN vac. Not the smallest one,the mid size one. It comes with about a 1 1/2" LOOONG hose. But,what I like is that you can jam a plastic Sears 2 1/2" hose into the hole left when you take the original hose off( WHAT? Do they make SMALLER shavings in Europe?). I REALLY like that you can connect a sander to the plug in in the vac,hook up the sander's hose to the vac,and when you turn the sander on,the vac comes on. And it goes off a few seconds after you turn the sander off! I have used it with my Bosch electric planer(with the help of a few coils of sand paper). It effectively gets all the planer's chips!

hence my comment about 350 hp. I know the peak hp is bunk. :-)

[Mike Holbrook]

Derek I believe your Fein and the Festool vacs can use the same hose. I am wondering about the new versions of the Fein which is what I would have to buy. I am wondering if the new models use a different hose size? It would make some sense since the original Feins and Festools were made in Germany, but the Feins are now made at some larger manufacturer who may be using slightly different hoses. I have seen a number of different post about the newer machines. Eric mentions some issues above. Maybe I am being a little over cautious but after buying an expensive set of Festool attachments that do not work very well with either of the hoses I have...

I understand that Festool vacs work better with Festool tools and containers, which is why I have the CT22. Now, however, I am looking for a more mobile vac for general shop clean up so I can dedicate the CT22 to Festool tools and containers. I am more concerned about a good versatile/compatible hose, good attachments, mobility...than how the vac works with Festool gear.

I am interested in a couple of pieces of information I found above.
Great to know about the Nilfisk Matt/Eric.
Eric, thanks for the explanation of the Attix design and the Nilfisk Aero. I did some looking around on Amazon for Nilfisk. There are quite a few versions: Attix 30-maybe it works without a bag?, Aero 31 which has a stainless steel canister/8 gal for $329.45.... I am not sure what some of these features may be. We all have to figure out which set of features may or may not benefit the work we have planned for the tool, as always.

For instance I do not typically use electric sanders, ok I have a Fein Multi tool but IMHO it sucks as a sander, the pads come off. I use it mostly for cutting where no other tool will fit. So I am not sure variable speed will actually benefit me.

I am interested in the no bag idea, if there is a way to do it without putting extra dust in the air?

I usually pick up or sweep larger refuse too. I'm not even sure how much suction I actually want. At some point all that suction just starts pulling all the wrong things into the vacuum and maybe through the bag. I am also sensitive to the noise/db, which may increase as the power/suction of the vacuum increases? This may be a unique issue for me, but I would like to be able to sucks sawdust and small shavings off surfaces and around tools/tool wells without sucking up the smaller tools/drill bits/pencils/fasteners....

I am wondering about the bypass systems mentioned above. Can this kind of system work without putting extra dust in the air? I think HEPA systems target smaller dust particles which may be good for me. I wonder what the trade off is though? Apparently cost is one. I also suspect good HEPA systems might not coexist well with separators....

[Eric Brown]

First, some disclosure. The company I work for makes some of the hardware for some of the vacuums they sell. I am only informing y'all about their existence and you can judge for yourself the features they have, such as self cleaning. See here: http://www.cdclarue.com/

I do not own one, but if I used more power tools I would consider them.
Doubt if I would even be able to get a discount.

Enjoy.

[Malcolm Schweizer]

First, some disclosure. The company I work for makes some of the hardware for some of the vacuums they sell. I am only informing y'all about their existence and you can judge for yourself the features they have, such as self cleaning. See here: http://www.cdclarue.com/

I do not own one, but if I used more power tools I would consider them.
Doubt if I would even be able to get a discount.

Enjoy.

wow, those are cool, but very pricey. I like the self-cleaning filter.

[Mike Holbrook]

I found one for a little over $500, but I think the caster set has to be bought separately. Except for the base model they seem to run over $1000. I need to study on whether auto clean is worth the additional cost.

[Jim Ritter]

Here is the pic of the separator. Nothing fancy. A short extension cord was added to the hose so I always have power for the sander or whatever. The vac itself retains its bag and hepa filter, I just don't need to empty it very often (almost never).



Jim

[Kirby Krieger]

Let me know if you want pics I'm heading to the shop soon.
Jim

Jim — thanks for the reply. I saw the pic you posted elsewhere in the thread. Appreciate both.

Cheers,

—Kirby.

[Mike Holbrook]

So a separator's function is to separate the larger particles into a separate container where they may be emptied out easily, leaving only fine dust continuing on to the actual vac system?

[Jim Ritter]

You got it Mike, if if your separator is a good one very little fine dust gets to the vac. As I've said I haven't changed the bag in the vac in a couple of years, but I empty the separator often.
Jim

[Mike Holbrook]

I pulled the trigger on a Nilfisk Aero 31-21 INOX for $312 (with a sign up discount from Sylvane, free shipping. It was available through Amazon at a little higher price. Sylvane is a "clean air company" which offered much more info on the machines, ways to compare various machines, videos....One of my issues with Amazon is the information they have on products is often inadequate or wrong.

This is the machine Eric mentions above, but with a few additional features and the next larger size. The machine I bought has 8 vs 5 gal capacity at the same 64db. The machine can be used bagless. The body is stainless steel and has a removable SS 8 gal bucket for removing and dumping debris. It has the "Push and Clean" filter cleaning, via reversing air flow, function. It offers: a little tool storage on top, a cable rap type hose holder and tool activated start/stop. The machine in SS only weighs 23 lbs. and appears to move around very easily.

It comes with 10 different attachments, including: an aluminum extension tube, 11.5' hose, stainless steel emptying bucket, floor nozzle for wet & dry, suction brush, tool adapter with regulator, crevice tool, universal nozzle, tool holder kit, dust bag, washable PET filter.

Although I bought the machine that does not have a HEPA filter, simply replacing the filter on the machine with a HEPA filter makes it a HEPA.I can try bagless, add a bag or switch to the HEPA filter all with the same machine. This gives me a way to test whether or not I need/want a HEPA filter or a bag. This machine uses a closed/sealed system that is not suppose to let dust out. If my sneezing is due to pollen in the spring air I am guessing the HEPA filter want help and may just clog the machine faster.

I am still thinking about a separator. I think the push button cleaning, removable 8 gal SS emptying bucket, and the washable PET filter may work similarly for me without requiring the extra container or hoses. My new shop will likely be much smaller.

[lowell holmes]

If you had told me that shop vacuums would be the subject for 29 posts, I would not have believed it.