Looking for dust collection advice

[tony j kent]

I have a 300 shop and I do woodworking for a hobby on the weekends and after work (about 15 hours a week at the moment). I’m currently using 2.5” shop vac + dust deputy on a cart that I wheel around my shop. Once a week I blow out all the dust from my shop. I have a Jet AFS-1000B air filter hanging from the ceiling which helps. My biggest concerns are the fine dust I can’t see that I’m breathing and the fine dust I can see everywhere.
I want to upgrade my system and here’s my short list of options:
1. Basic Harbor Freight , Jet or Griz Dust collect + top hat Thien Baffle + Wynn canister (could be 1.5 hp 110V or 2hp 220V)
2. Grizzly G0703P 1.5 hp Cyclone (includes canister filter + remote control). On sale for $675 (seems roughly equivalent to the Jet 1.5hp that costs about $1050)
3. Grizzly or Jet 220V 2hp Cyclone ($1500-$2000)

#1 is doable – But I have little spare time outside my regular job that I would rather spend it on woodworking, not building a Dust Collector. My research tells me a cyclone is superior to a Thien baffle.

I’m leaning towards #2 because I live 90 minutes from a Grizzly showroom, all the features are included and the price seems to double for the 220V 2hp units ($1500-$2000). For the moment I’m happy to move a hose from machine to machine like I do today. Eventually I might want to run ducting around my walls to my machines. The main trunk would be less than 20 feet long and have no more than 2 right angle turns (hopefully just one right angle in one corner of my shop) . Only one machine at a time will be used. I would rather not have to pay $1500+ for a 2HP cyclone if I don’t really need it. I would rather spend the difference on other tools like a drum sander or downdraft table. I’m not looking to build a perfect DC system but one that does the job adequately and doesn’t leave me wishing I had got something bigger a year from now. I know eventually I need to do a better job of capturing dust at the source than the standard ports on the tools have but right now. However, at the moment, I’m not really to deal with elaborate hoods or overhead collection above my table saw. Most of my current tools are hobby grade that I bought used and have 2.5” ports. (eg. Delta contractor saw, ridgid band saw, kreg router table). The one exception is my minimax jointer/planer with 5” (120mm) ports. A couple of upgrades I would like to make in the next 5 years are a sawstop table saw and a drum sander.

Exhausting the DC outside is also an option (instead of a filter) if I build a sound baffle – my neighbor’s house is 20 feet away from my shop and I assume an unmuffled exhaust would be to noisy.

I can afford a 2HP or better unit, but since I'm still working with fairly inexpensive power tools, I think the money would be better spent on other things. I’m still reading Bill Pentz site.

I know it won’t be perfect, but will the 1.5hp Grizzly cyclone do the job for the next few years? Or , in 6 months will I be wishing I had spent more than twice as much on a 2hp DC. Advice and opinions are welcome.

Tony
Ars ex Machina

[Wade Lippman]

I used a 1.5hp cyclone and ran a 10' hose to the tool. It worked fine.
I would rather have a 2hp, but that is a darned good price.

Natually it depends on what you are using it for. I would want more than 1.5hp on a 20 planer or a big drum sander.

[Brian W Smith]

We're spoiled rotten here....building systems from the ground up to include most fittings (we have a pretty durn complete sheet metal shop).

A decent 3 or maybe 5 HP cyclone,another 1 1/2 HP Cyclone,and a cpl 2 HP baggers....is about all you could ask for in a small pro shop.vs,one big system.You are under the regulatory radar,and if one system breaks down,it's just not a game stopper.Throw in sleeved,QC joints...like said,spoiled.

As an adjunct,most DC port design(B.P. drops the ball here),from the factory is woefully bad.To the point that the recommended systems are bigger than they really need.Rolling your own machine ports is the obvious solution,just sayin.Best of luck with your system'S.

[David Gutierrez]

just my 2 cents but I found it a pain to be constantly moving the hose and DC from machine to machine. Also got tired of stepping over the hose. I have a 2 hp griz with the canister filter. I do have a bad back so the constant bending over is a problem for me.
now contemplating building permanent duct work. using the pentz sizing calculator I am finding that 3 hp is what is required for my small shop.

[Jim Dwight]

I'm using a shop vac with dust deputy right now too. I sold a 1 hp Delta DC I used in the last shop becaude I am not sure I have space for a DC, I used my track saw and other tools that the shop vac works well with a lot, and my little 1 hp didn't always do what needed done. If I replace it, it will be with a HF 2hp modified with a super dust deputy and discharging outside. I used the Delta with inadequate filtration until the last itteration and I am convinced that is worse than no dust collection. It blows the fine stuff up where you can breathe it. I added a cartridge at the end but I hated cleaning it. A cyclone would help that a lot - it does on the shop vac. If you look, you can find you tubes where people did the HF/super dust deputy setup. It's going to cost around $500, however, so it's worthwhile to be sure a Grizzly isn't cheap enough you can avoid the work.

[Andy Giddings]

I went with option 1 using a Shop Fox 1.5HP, Wynn filter retrofit and Oneida Super Dust Deputy. I did try a Thien baffle before the Deputy and it worked well. As you stated, Tony, the cyclone is supposedly more efficient which is why I switched. Based on my few months experience, very little dust gets through to the poly bag under the filter.

I've just run 6 inch metal duct to the center of my shop (or double garage :-)) as I'll only have a couple of machines using DC. One will be a combo machine and the other is a router table. As I only switch between these two, I can keep the flex hose run to a minimum which helps keep air resistance down. Also, as Brian mentioned, a 4 inch dust port really doesn't help you so have enlarged mine to 5.

If I had to do it all over again I would probably do the same as I have plenty of air flow (around 900CFM at the end of the metal duct with a 5 inch reducer fitted). Regardless of which way you go, Tony, you can get by with the lower power DC as long as you pay attention to the duct work and use an efficient cyclone and filter. Lumberjocks reviewed the Grizzly Cyclone recently so might be worth exchanging views with the posters there before making a choice. I would avoid the HF unless you also increase the impeller size. I believe the HF impeller is about an inch smaller in dia than the Jet/Shop Fox/Delta range

[Jim Becker]

My comment...you cannot have "too much" dust collection capability and re-buying is usually more expensive than putting in a great solution up-front.

[John K Jordan]

My comment...you cannot have "too much" dust collection capability and re-buying is usually more expensive than putting in a great solution up-front.

That's exactly what I struggled with when designing my shop. I was frustrated with the shop vac method in my little garage shop and I knew I didn't want to do that any more. I didn't want to spend the money for a big cyclone but I only wanted to do it once so I just bit the bullet. In retrospect, I'm so glad I did. It was painful to spend the money and do the installation but it's done now and the cost is starting to look pretty small spread out over a few years so far. Also, I know several people who had to quit working with wood completely because they developed lung problems. The cost of a cyclone is probably less than that of medical treatment.

I put in a 5 hp ClearVue cyclone with ducts overhead in the trusses and 6" drops to major tools. Man, this think sucks!

The sound level from a big cyclone exhaust can wake the dead. Maybe they can demonstrate this in the store.

What ever you (Tony) decide, I highly recommend putting the DC in a closet of some sort to deaden the noise. The sound from a big cyclone is painful and damaging to hearing - outside my closet (6" walls, staggered stud construction) I can carry on normal conversation. I put the big air compressor in there too.

JKJ

[RDave Evans]

That's exactly what I struggled with when designing my shop. I was frustrated with the shop vac method in my little garage shop and I knew I didn't want to do that any more. I didn't want to spend the money for a big cyclone but I only wanted to do it once so I just bit the bullet. In retrospect, I'm so glad I did. It was painful to spend the money and do the installation but it's done now and the cost is starting to look pretty small spread out over a few years so far. Also, I know several people who had to quit working with wood completely because they developed lung problems. The cost of a cyclone is probably less than that of medical treatment.

I put in a 5 hp ClearVue cyclone with ducts overhead in the trusses and 6" drops to major tools. Man, this think sucks!

The sound level from a big cyclone exhaust can wake the dead. Maybe they can demonstrate this in the store.

What ever you (Tony) decide, I highly recommend putting the DC in a closet of some sort to deaden the noise. The sound from a big cyclone is painful and damaging to hearing - outside my closet (6" walls, staggered stud construction) I can carry on normal conversation. I put the big air compressor in there too.

JKJ

I appreciate this comment as it is not something I have given too much thought. I am at the same place as the OP so great timing on the thread.

[Chris Padilla]

Everyone has a different way they enter into DC. Some ease in with shop-vacs and then a mobile DC and then eventually to a wall-mounted cyclone. I tend to jump in with both feet and went the cyclone route skipping the mobile DC.

You'll want at least a 14" impeller and at least 3 hp turning it and most likely sitting atop a cyclone.

You'll want at least 6" ducting (I went PVC...ASTM 2729 S&D) everywhere and take the 6" as far as you can to the equipment before TAPERING down to the equipment's opening. Better yet, modify the equipment's opening to 6" if possible.

Finally, you'll want some nice 6" blast gates that are self-cleaning but better is to automate them. I got my blast gates from Lee Valley. My gates are NOT automated but maybe one day I'll do it.

Other nice things to have are level sensors for how full your bin is.

And John is right on with the noise: your impeller isn't far off in design to becoming an air-raid siren. Always wear hearing protection or put it outside or in a closet/box enclosure.

If you vent/exhaust the DC outside, you are done but if you need to keep it inside, get some nice filters for it. However, if you are conditioning the air in your shop, you'll be sending it outside if you vent outside so keep that in mind.

Fun, eh?

[Larry Frank]

An option for you is to look at used ones. I just looked at the Seattle CL and there are several available. I think you could find one and with a little work have a good system for your shop.

I am trying to sell one in my area and not many lookers.

[Jim Becker]

One of the reasons for my previous comment was that I am one of the folks that started out with a smaller cyclone (1.5hp) and had to spend the money to replace it when I bought my J/P combo...the smaller machine just couldn't keep up with the wider machine. I have no regrets, but it ultimately cost me more to do it twice, even though I was able to sell the original unit for a reasonable sum.

[John Hann]

Tony,
I am a hobbyist with a 12 x 24 shop with hobbyist type machines. Old Delta Unisaw, 6" Jet Jointer, Dewalt benchtop planer, etc. I have been using a 1 1/2 hp shop fox dust collector for 12 years. I had 10 feet of flex hose on it and moved it from machine to machine. It worked fine. Kept up with all my tools but did leave a thin film of dust everywhere. I always wanted to put a cartridge filter on it and recently thought about putting a Super Dust Deputy on it as well, but never pulled the trigger.
About a month ago the motor on the DC croaked. Looked into fixing or replacing the motor but it didn't make sense cost wise especially if I wanted a cartridge filter and cyclone as well. After 12 years and who knows how many thousands of hours of use, I got my money out of the old DC. I ended up buying the Grizzly 1 1/2 hp cyclone you mentioned. At the sale price, it is less than the cost of the components to put together a DC with cartridge filter, cyclone, collection drum, etc.
Put it together this week and used it for a few hours. I am currently moving the hose from machine to machine, but that is what I am used to, so I am fine with it. It definitely filters much better than the bag filtered DC and there is nothing in the collection bag under the filter. I am very pleased with the operation, although it is louder than th old DC.
My only complaint is that it does not come with an electrical plug. The casters are also a little iffy. It is heavier than my old DC but still easy to roll around.
I suppose a larger cyclone would be nice but there is no way I can justify the additional cost. This will keep the shop as clean as a larger unit, I just have to move it around.
Good Luck with your decision,
John

[Al Launier]

Another "hobbyist" woodworker as well, with the same start-up problems of dust/sawdust control. I went with the HF dust collector (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-hp-in...tor-97869.html) & decided to use the Rockler "Dust Right" system (http://www.rockler.com/search/go?w=dust%20right). I set up each machine with the appropriate DR port to accept a 21' long, 4" dia. flexible hose. Although not as convenient as having each maching hard ducted, it's easy & quick to hook the flex hose to whatever machine i want to use. Once used, I simply coil it up next to the HF DC leaving the shop clear to walk around.

I also installed a Rikon air filtration system (http://www.woodcraft.com/product/857...r-400-cfm.aspx) to clear the air.

My shop is set up in the basement next to a finished living area & this has worked well in keeping the living area isolated from the shop & it's "contaminants & odors" .

[Jon Endres]

I have a Shop Fox 2-hp DC with OEM bags and a Delta air cleaner in my basement shop. I also use the Rockler Dust-Right system and I find it easy to connect tools to a flex hose as I need them. The Shop Fox does a good job picking up the dust from the tools I connect it to but it blows a lot of fine dust through the bag and I often have to run the air cleaner for a couple of hours to get rid of the haze in the air. My new garage workshop, which I am hoping to occupy in about two months, I'm going to keep the same DC but upgrade it with a Super Dust Deputy and a Wynn canister filter. I'll also keep the air cleaner. I only use my DC with my planer and jointer right now, but I am going to hard-duct the main DC run and put in flex drops for other tools that could use occasional duct collection.