Tail vise options: inset vise vs wagon vise?

[Stephen Clement]

Howdy Folks! I'd like your thoughts on tail vises. I currently don't have one on my bench (4' roubo) and get by using a doe's foot. I'm considering upgrading my bench with an inset vise, but have two questions/concerns:

First, having never used either, how does an inset vise compare to a wagon vise? I know retrofitting a wagon vise is very hard. However, I plan to replace my bench with a full sized one in about 2 years. Thus, I don't want to waste money on an inset vise to just replace it with a wagon vise in 2 years. Is an inset vise good for the long term, or should I stick it out for 2 more years?

Second, which inset vise? The two options I know of are the Veritas and the HNT Gordon. I like the HNT Gordon because it just takes 1/2" diameter dogs, not the double peg of the Veritas and the knob looks more ergonomic than the swivel lever. Does anyone have experience with both that can comment?

Thanks!

[Prashun Patel]

Installation issues notwithstanding...

Wagon and inset vises are functionally very similar.

The more significant comparison is between wagon/inset and tail vises. The wagon/inset are not as close to the edge of the bench which may or may not bother you. The tail vise expands the end of the bench unlike a wagon vise. This means a tail vise offers wider capacity than a wagon vise, which may or may not bother you.

[Frank Drew]

What Prashun said; I like a tail vise because it offers more holding capacity/options than (what I think I understand about) a tail vise.

[ken hatch]

Stephen,

You gain little useful holding options with either the inset vise or wagon vise over what you are doing now with hold fasts and battens. I had a wagon vise on one of my benches and took if off because it was just in the way. I know you didn't ask but a tail vise does offer some additional holding options, is it worth the trouble? Maybe, I've recently added a vise in the tail position after several years with out one because I had a large glue up that I was unable to hold with a stop and doe's foot. I've found I use it, the tail vise, occasionally to hold work perpendicular to the bench, it works well for that. I haven't used it to hold work flat on the bench since the large glue up.

ken

[Reinis Kanders]

I have Veritas quick release tail vise. Very useful, more than I originally expected. I put my benchdogs only an inch from the edge and I can do a lot of edge operations without a sticking board.

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Stephen

I went with the Benchcrafted wagon vise because of its massive over build (see the documentation of my design decisions and build here). The HNT Gordon inset vise was not on the market at that time, but still would not have been chosen. I have used one on a number of occasions. Terry Gordon builds wonderful planes, and the vise is up there with all he has done. It works well But ... it is designed for a thinner benchtop, say 2" (although there is no reason it cannot be fitted to a thick benchtop). Mainly, because the built-in dog required that it is placed on top of the vise (which is the same for the Veritas), as opposed to the BC, where the dog is place into the vise. This means that the height of the dog cannot be adjusted, and several dogs have to be on hand to accomodate to the thickness of varying workpieces.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Malcolm Schweizer]

Inset vises are a last resort in my opinion; they do the job, but with a lot of drawbacks. One drawback is a lot of metal on top of your bench to eat tools. I'm not too fussy about metal dogs and metal planing stops, but an inset vise is a LOT of metal. They have awkward mechanisms that through pure physics will never clamp like a wagon vise.

I do love wagon vises, and I would instantly and without question choose the Hovarter wagon vise first, and Benchcrafted so close of a second that it almost would be a tie. The wagon vise is where Hovarter excels, with easy sliding and 1/4 turn clamping. The Hovarter does not do well in racking situations, but racking is not an issue with a wagon vise.

I also, like Prashun, would suggest a tail vise, and Lie-Nielsen excels in this area. https://www.lie-nielsen.com/product/...are-?node=4112 A tail vise lets you put the dog holes right on the edge of the bench. You can still use it to clamp boards for dovetailing like the wagon vise. In the past they had major issues with racking and sagging, but LN solved that with hefty metal rails. Veritas is a good choice as well.