Do I really need a new table saw?

[Sam Seward]

About a week ago, I posted a question concerning two hybrid table saws, The Jet Proshop and the Grizzly 0771. After a whole lot of looking and finding at least one other possibility, a Steel City 35600 series, I'm wondering if I really need a new (to me) saw.

The saw I have now is a Jet contractor saw with cast iron wings and I haven't had any real problems with it. It rips well and is parallel to the fence and to the miter slot. The only reason I've been looking is that mine is right tilt and I'm starting to do miter work for cabinets, etc.

To eliminate the problem of the thin edge of the miter sliding under the bottom of the fence when cutting the second side, I've used plywood to raise the piece. Is this a good solution or is there a better one? Is a left tilt saw really necessary? Are there other advantages I'm not thinking of that would justify the purchase?

Thanks in advance.

Sam

[John TenEyck]

I have a right tilt Unisaw and have no troubles cutting bevels. You said miters but I think you meant bevels. You don't want to cut bevels with the bevel trapped between the blade and fence. That's the advantage of a left tilt saw. The fence sits to the right of the blade, and the blade tilts left, so the work piece is never trapped. With a right tilt saw there isn't much fence capacity on the left side of the blade, so you have to take a different approach for wider parts. You use an auxiliary fence and you bury the blade in it. It's just a T-shape made from two pieces of plywood and clamped to your saw's fence. Make the vertical piece the same height as your fence. Make horizontal piece wider than your work piece is thick and screw it to the vertical piece such that it's mid point is the same height as the thickness of your work piece. Here's a short video from Joe Grout showing it in use:

http://vid243.photobucket.com/albums...e/P1010001.mp4

You cut your work piece to final width. Then set up the auxiliary fence with the blade height set so that it cuts into the auxiliary fence at the exact height of the top (thickness) of your work piece. Now just run your work piece against the auxiliary fence. The bevel will be cut perfectly and the off cut will fall harmlessly under the auxiliary fence.

I know, sounds hard, but it's not.

John

[John Donhowe]

I think the two major advantages of hybrid saws are better dust collection, due to the enclosed cabinet, and a riving knife. Since a riving knife follows the motion of the blade, it's less tempting to remove it, and so is safer than a traditional splitter.

As far as right vs left tilt, it's a matter of preference. With most saws, the fence is typically on th right side of the blade. If you're making a bevel cut by tilting the blade, with a right tilt blade you should move the fence to the left side of the blade, to avoid trapping the cut between the beveled blade and the fence. Many woodworkers find it uncomfortable having the fence on the other side of the blade, so prefer a left tilt blade, so that the fence can be used safely for bevel cuts on the right side of the blade. Personally, I don't think it makes any difference- but I'm left handed, so I've had a lifetime of having to adjust in a right handed world. If you find a right tilt saw you like, it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

I'm not sure what you mean about having thin edges of miter cuts sliding under the fence. Miter cuts are cut using the miter gauge, not the fence. Maybe you are referring to bevel cuts, where you tilt the blade when doing a rip cut. If that's the situation, I don't see any problem using some plywood to prevent the sharp beveled edge from slipping under the fence.

[Doug Hepler]

Sam,

I recommend that you make a rip sled for cutting miters. It would raise the work and also allow you to clamp the work in place so that it can't slide around. Depending on how long your workpieces are, you could make it to run in a miter slot or simply run along the rip fence. I can send you drawings of such a sled if you like (for a left-tilt saw)

I also recommend that you put your rip fence to the left of a right-tilted blade so that the cutoff can fall away from the blade. A 1/2" thick sled will facilitate this.

As to a new saw, I would not attempt to answer this. If the rip fence is solid, the arbor does not have too much runout, and the power is adequate, you might be happier if you spend your money on something else (like a band saw if you don't have one, etc.) . I have been a woodworker for 40 years, very serious for about 15. I had an 8" Sears table saw from the late 1930's for 20 years. I was not a very good craftsman back then, but the saw did not help because it was underpowered and the fence would not stay in place. Still, I made some decent furniture. Then, when I got serious, I bought a 10" table saw, which I used for about 10 years. The 10" saw was a Craftsman zip code saw, a hybrid, maybe a step up from what you have. It did make a big difference in my enjoyment of woodworking and in the quality of my work, mainly because of the solid fence, stronger motor, and bigger table. But I was gaining skill at the same time, so I can't say how much was due to the saw and how much was due to my efforts to improve myself. I found that most of the opinions on a woodworking forum (not SMC) about what saw to buy were useless and confusing. I finally had to do the hard work of deciding what I was going to build with my new saw and finding one that was suitable for that purpose.

All best wishes

Doug

[Cary Falk]

I wouldn't upgrade just for a lert tilt. I don't see a hybrid as too much of an upgrade from a contractor saw. If you want a riving knife, better fence, more power, cabinet mounted trunnions, better dust collection, etc then I say change. You sound happy with your saw so I wouldn't switch just for left tilt.

[Matt Day]

As Cary said, don't just upgrade simply for Left Tilt.

Also, if you're going to do the upgrade I'd go straight to a true cabinet saw. I started with a contractors saw, then a Delta Hybrid (left tilt), and I've had a Bridgewood (right tilt) for a number of years.

[Jared Sankovich]

I prefer right tilt, if for no other reason than the distance between the fence and the blade is consistent. Unlike a left tilt that changes with any change in blade thickness.

[Gerry Grzadzinski]

I also prefer right tilt, and use the method that John uses to cut miters and chamfers. Here's a pic from cutting some chamfers.

Right_Tilt.jpg

If cutting a full miter, you need to rabbet the auxiliary fence below the blade so the offcut piece doesn't get thrown back at you.
Imo, this is a much safer method of cutting miters, and is also more consistent.

[Eric Schmid]

One of my saws is a right tilt. Due to shop layout it made more sense to put the fence on the left. At first it felt awkward, but I don't even think about it anymore. I switch between saws with fence on left and right without thinking about it.

The point about riving knife and dust collection are well put. These are the only two reasons I would upgrade my old Rockwell. There are work arounds for both, but I really prefer a riving knife as well as modern blade shrouds and guards.

[Von Bickley]

Everybody has their own opinion about right tilt and left tilt. I have a Delta contractor saw with a right tilt, that was a gift. I will soon be 68 years old and in bad health, so this will probably be my last table-saw. If I would ever buy another saw, it would never be a right tilt. Never want another right tilt.

[Matt Day]

Everybody has their own opinion about right tilt and left tilt. I have a Delta contractor saw with a right tilt, that was a gift. I will soon be 68 years old and in bad health, so this will probably be my last table-saw. If I would ever buy another saw, it would never be a right tilt. Never want another right tilt.

Strong words and underlining without any justification. Why?

[Von Bickley]

Strong words and underlining without any justification. Why?

If I want to build the end panel for kitchen base cabinets with a right tilt saw, I have to put the good side of the plywood down. I was taught that you always put the good side up when cutting plywood.
If I am cutting a 24" end panel on a right tilt saw, the panel is trapped between the blade and the fence, not a good idea.

This is based on using plywood and mitering the edges. If you are building cabinets and using a solid wood face frame where you don't need to miter the edges and you are cutting everything at 90 degrees, then there is no difference between the left or right tilt.

[Sam Seward]

Yes, I should have said bevels. My saw does have dust collection underneath even though it's a contractor's saw and it has a riving. I'll build a fence to use cutting bevels and follow Craigslist in case an incredible bargain comes up, but I won't obsess about it. To plagiarize from Nike, I'll just do it.

[Mike Kees]

There is also one other way to deal with this problem. I have two right tilt unisaws in my shop facing each other with an outfeed table between them. On one saw I have an excalibur sliding table, right tilt now works with all of the advantages of a left tilt saw. Good side of plywood up, no pieces "trapped" etc. If I ever buy a different saw it would be a slider. The excalibur sliding table attachment i got at an auction, it has worked very well after a little tweaking. The last two years has been more than enough to convince me the advantages of a sliding table are well worth the cost. Anyways thats my perspective after working for a long time with a right tilt saw and a far shorter time with the same saw and a sliding table attached.

[jessie hachey]

In my application I much prefer right tilt for more accurate angles when ripping. However I am just commenting because you mentioned Steel City. I have a bandsaw (can't remember model) but it was a 5hp, 220V, and I broke something on it that should never break... I sheared the 1 1/4" diameter threaded rod which the bottom wheel is mounted to... And I did this while using a 1/4" blade... Yes a 1/4" blade snapped a 1 1/4" threaded rod..

So it was brand new, still under warranty.. The company reps said it was my fault for tightening the blade too much... Ok.. the thickest blade I used to date was a 3/8" blade... anyway.. you;re telling me a 1/4" blade snapped a 1 1/4" threaded rod... FFS.. they argued with me for a week about it and wanted me to pay for repairs on my own. SO instead I had them come remove their machine from my shop and I'll never buy Steel City again. I got all my money back expect the freight.

Also on the same steel city bandsaw.. It would often trip the onboard breaker on start-up. Had an electrician check our voltage and amperage supply, good, rewired the switch, and start-up circuit with heavier guage wiring, good.. but still happened, and the company had no solutions for us.

Overall stay away from steel city is my advice.

For an economical table say, I bought a Cantek from Akhurst machinery. 12", 5hp, 220v single phase. Only complaint is the fence bumps out of adjustment from time to time, but thats just an allen screw to adjust.