I have a Stanley 60 that lives in my nail belt. The steel in it is excellent. It holds an edge and I have chopped mortises with it. It will pare edges quite well.
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I have a Stanley 60 that lives in my nail belt. The steel in it is excellent. It holds an edge and I have chopped mortises with it. It will pare edges quite well.
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My beaters are a set of old Marples with the black/blue handles which have the steel caps on the ends - not sure if you can find these new but cheap on the flea bay and they can really take a beating. I have the blue handle with white ring Marples also and imagine that they can take a hit (Due to the handle material) but wouldn't do that personally. My yellow-handled buck bros only come out when there's a good chance there's a nail or some other metal hazard in the piece I'm working on.
[OP]
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I'm currently (and will take my time doing further research/shopping) leaning towards the following: http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com...info/101-1106/
A middle range hardness that I think will suit my needs well...certainly not a super hard Japanese steel, but harder than entry level chisels...
will keep my current chisels in my bags for general work, and pull those out only when doing real finish work.
anybody have any true knowledge/experience in that brand?
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I don't have experience with the brand, but I've bought from Tools for Working Wood. Everything I've bought from them has been good quality. I've known about them for about 15 years.Originally Posted by Michael Pyron
The woodworkers at Homestead Heritage bought from them back in the early 2000's.
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These look like rebadged Two Cherries chisels. The have the same mix of chrome and vanadium, and the same handles. If so, they will be tougher to hone than Japanese bench chisels. Plus, if they are finished (polished) like the Two Cherries, the edges with be dubbed (rounded backs) and you will need to spend time (?) flattening the backs (it is possible to get unpolished Two Cherries, but these look polished). Please try them out in the store rather than buying unseen online (unless they have a good return policy). There are many chisels that you can purchase on line safely, but I have reservations about these.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Hi again Michael,
I thought I might mention another way to purchase chisels. Rather than buying a set, many of which typically get little use, you might consider buying one or two of something you like so that you can gain experience with them before buying more. Japanese chisels in particular come in quite a few different types, all designed to do specific work. For instance you could start with a Japanese Oire-nomi, general purpose/butt chisels or two in the sizes you actually need. If you have large hands or think the chisels will see extra hard use you might start with Japanese Tatak nomi, medium striking chisels. If you plan to make mortises regularly you might consider Japanese mortise chisels, Mukomachi-nomi. If you find yourself wanting to do paring by hand you might want a few of the Japanese paring chisels, Usu-nomi. Yes this could go on & on, the point is eventually you may find a few of several different types of chisels suits your needs better.
I should mention that chisels made here in the US and countries other than Japan come in different types too. The Japanese chisels are just available in even more types/styles...
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Those Bucks are actually not horrible chisels once tuned up properly, especially considering the price. I have a 3/4 that I use as a "beater" chisel and gave a (tuned up) set to a friend once. I don't think they're all that much worse than the vaunted Narex chisels (of which I have many in different styles) for example. Also and as you point out they can take a pretty substantial beating.
You're going to have a religious debate on your hands here.the issue I see, is that quality chisels have wooden handles, and I use a 12 oz. hammer.
I know my hammer VERY well, and since I'm an in the field trim/finish carpenter who uses chisel for hardware I have no desire to change out the tool I use to hit my chisels with...typical scenario for me is having to mortise in Sun Valley Bronze pocket door face pulls into the face of the door (they are 1/4" thick on the edges and are made to be set into the face of a door)...point being, I know my methods and have them down...the last thing I need is a curve ball of a new unidirectional impact generator being thrown at me...by the time I get to such a pocket door, it's value is in the $2,000 range (cost of door, install, finishing, etc.).
so my query is this: are wooden handled chisels OK with being struck by a 12 oz. hammer?
about the only mid-range chisel I see with a metal cap is the Irwin Marples brand, and I'm not sure they are much better than a Buck Brother's...
what I need is a quality piece of steel that will keep an edge for a few days, as opposed to the Bucks which tend to need honing every day, if not resharpening if I hit a hard piece of wood and get a few micro nicks in them.
as far as brand, not sure yet...I use 3 chisel sizes predominantly: 1/2" (not that often), 3/4" (mainstay small chisel), 1 1/2" (mainstay large chisel perfect for making a 1.5" straight line when dealing with longer mortises)
thanks in advance for any relevant information and advice...
oh, and I've been a carpenter for over 30 years, so pretty set in my ways at this point
My take FWIW: If you're going to use a hammer then you want something with a metai cap, ferrule, or hoop at the striking end of the handle. As you say Marples are capped. Narex bench chisels have ferrules, while Japanese chisels are hooped (they're designed to be struck with a metal-headed Gennou - Stanley already weighed in and flushed out those details).
As noted above I don't think Narex are a huge leap over what you're using now. I don't have experience with modern Marples but they also don't have a terrific rep, so you might just want to stand pat.
IMO you don't want to mess with premium Western chisels like L-N or LV. The steels used in those are optimized more for wear life than toughness, and the handles aren't designed to take a beating (though they are mostly socket or hybrid socket/tang construction, so at least that end of the handle would hold up OK).
What about the Bucks seems limiting to you?
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-29-2016 at 3:47 PM.
[OP]
Member
schweet...thx for that tip...I notice they have plastic handled Two Cherries chisels there...
the link I gave does look very similar to Two Cherries, but there are subtle differences...shrugs shoulders...
I'm not sure how a polished blade is going to of detriment...the back should still be flat, albeit with slightly eased edges...
will keep doing research...most likely will start out with a nominal 3/4" (maybe 7/8"...I use these for 1" wide mortises, and since that in of itself is many times nominal, a 1" chisel isn't a good candidate) and a 1 1/2" or 1 3/4"...good idea most likely to save funds and experiment with different brands...
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Mm...I say have more faith in your adaptability and use the right tool for the job - a wooden mallet. There's no reason you have to use the same hammer for every task. If it makes you feel better, take half an hour and practice on some scrap first. Sorry, I'm not letting you off the hook so easily ;-)
"I am always doing what I can't do yet in order to learn how to do it."
- Van Gogh, 1885
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It's important to distinguish here between the Lee Valley Butt Chisels and the Veritas Butt Chisels.
The Veritas butt chisels have PM-V11 blades and "bare" (no ferrule/cap) wooden handles. They aren't particularly impact resistant as a consequence, so I wouldn't recommend those chisels be hammered.
The LV Butt Chisels look like a pretty good option (HCS, plastic handle) though as with Narex I'd question just how much of an upgrade you're really getting over the Bucks you have. You might also look at the very similar LV Bench Chisels.
Last edited by Patrick Chase; 05-29-2016 at 3:27 PM.
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You should be aware that there is a tradeoff between toughness and wear resistance in tool steels. Japanese chisels circumvent that to a degree by using laminated blades (i.e. some of each), but in general "chisels you can whale on with a metal hammer" and "chisels with highly wear-resistant edges" are mutually exclusive groups. Even in the case of Japanese chisels a 12-oz domed-face hammer is pushing it IMO.
If you want wear-resistant steels you'll realistically need to ditch the hammer.
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The Swiss Pfeil also has a series of bench chisels with hoops. But I don't know if they are available in the US.
Member
Those edges may not be all that impact resistant. "High carbon steel... enhanced by adding small amounts of Chromium and Vanadium" sounds suspiciously like the composition of A2. If you're going to be whaling on those things with a metal hammer you want a tough steel, not a hard one. I'd stick to HCS if I were you.
Contributor
What I have been "whaling away on" lately..
tool kit.jpg
And what I hit with. Two came from Aldis, the New Haven Edge Tool chisel was an auction find...
Mallet was turned from a blank of spalted maple. Made to fit my hands.
Was doing a bunch of these thingys..
IMAG0002.jpg
Building a back for a rocker..
glued up back.jpg
Mortises were 1" deep.
Contributor
It may also be a matter of not wanting to carry more items in a tool box. The hammer has other uses. A mallet would require a space that may not be available.
jtk
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
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