Chisels

[Michael Pyron]

yep, mighty useful tools.

I'm at a point in my life where I feel the need to upgrade from the Buck Brother's chisels I've been getting from Home Depot...

the issue I see, is that quality chisels have wooden handles, and I use a 12 oz. hammer.

I know my hammer VERY well, and since I'm an in the field trim/finish carpenter who uses chisel for hardware I have no desire to change out the tool I use to hit my chisels with...typical scenario for me is having to mortise in Sun Valley Bronze pocket door face pulls into the face of the door (they are 1/4" thick on the edges and are made to be set into the face of a door)...point being, I know my methods and have them down...the last thing I need is a curve ball of a new unidirectional impact generator being thrown at me...by the time I get to such a pocket door, it's value is in the $2,000 range (cost of door, install, finishing, etc.).

so my query is this: are wooden handled chisels OK with being struck by a 12 oz. hammer?

about the only mid-range chisel I see with a metal cap is the Irwin Marples brand, and I'm not sure they are much better than a Buck Brother's...

what I need is a quality piece of steel that will keep an edge for a few days, as opposed to the Bucks which tend to need honing every day, if not resharpening if I hit a hard piece of wood and get a few micro nicks in them.

as far as brand, not sure yet...I use 3 chisel sizes predominantly: 1/2" (not that often), 3/4" (mainstay small chisel), 1 1/2" (mainstay large chisel perfect for making a 1.5" straight line when dealing with longer mortises)

thanks in advance for any relevant information and advice...

oh, and I've been a carpenter for over 30 years, so pretty set in my ways at this point

[Rick Fisher]

Japanese chisels have a hoop at the end that helps keep the wood in tact. The sharper the chisel, and the longer it stays sharp, the lighter you can hit it ..

[Martin Wasner]

I've got a set of Freud chisels, I think they are of mediocre quality, but they have wooden handles. Of If they are sharp, a hammer isn't necessary. If I'm pounding a chisel into something with a hammer I use another set with a metal cap, (I think they may be Buck even), for that. Different tools for different applications. I say buy a good set for the hand work, and keep your old ones for beating on.

[Roy Harding]

Mortising chisels. They're designed to take a blow.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Michael,

I do not have any problem with you hitting your chisels with a hammer. Just do not do it to mine please. Besides, for a lot of things I whack mine with a 24oz mallet.

For the 1/4" mortise or even the 1/2" I would suggest one of these:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...37&cat=1,41504

For your use it might be advantageous to drill a hole in the end so you could epoxy in a short carriage bolt to strike with your hammer.

For regular bevel edged bench chisels you might like these:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...07&cat=1,41504

Lee Valley also carries Japanese chisels if you decide to go that direction.

I only have one Narex chisel, a 1/4" mortise chisel, that hasn't been used much. I can not attest to the blade's edge holding attributes.

If edge retention is the predominate factor in your choice I would suggest looking at the Lee Valley Veritas PM-V11® chisels. They are a bit pricey. That is a drawback to quality.

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...47&cat=1,41504

The handles might do good to have a hoop added to the top for use with a hammer. Though yours is only 12oz which may not cause too much mushrooming of the head.

Old work habits die hard. It is likely easier for you to add hoops to the chisel than to lay down your hammer.

jtk

[Derek Cohen]

yep, mighty useful tools.

I'm at a point in my life where I feel the need to upgrade from the Buck Brother's chisels I've been getting from Home Depot...

the issue I see, is that quality chisels have wooden handles, and I use a 12 oz. hammer.

I know my hammer VERY well, and since I'm an in the field trim/finish carpenter who uses chisel for hardware I have no desire to change out the tool I use to hit my chisels with...typical scenario for me is having to mortise in Sun Valley Bronze pocket door face pulls into the face of the door (they are 1/4" thick on the edges and are made to be set into the face of a door)...point being, I know my methods and have them down...the last thing I need is a curve ball of a new unidirectional impact generator being thrown at me...by the time I get to such a pocket door, it's value is in the $2,000 range (cost of door, install, finishing, etc.).

so my query is this: are wooden handled chisels OK with being struck by a 12 oz. hammer?

about the only mid-range chisel I see with a metal cap is the Irwin Marples brand, and I'm not sure they are much better than a Buck Brother's...

what I need is a quality piece of steel that will keep an edge for a few days, as opposed to the Bucks which tend to need honing every day, if not resharpening if I hit a hard piece of wood and get a few micro nicks in them.

as far as brand, not sure yet...I use 3 chisel sizes predominantly: 1/2" (not that often), 3/4" (mainstay small chisel), 1 1/2" (mainstay large chisel perfect for making a 1.5" straight line when dealing with longer mortises)

thanks in advance for any relevant information and advice...

oh, and I've been a carpenter for over 30 years, so pretty set in my ways at this point

Hi Michael

I would not be purchasing a wooden handle unless it is hooped. A steel hammer will otherwise eventually destroy a naked wooden handle no matter the make.

I would also be unwilling to take expensive chisels to a jobsite. Partly because they are not ideally designed for this task, and because there are chisels which offer a better compromise.

The chisels that I have in mind are Japanese. There are a number of mid range priced types around that will outperform anything you could imagine by way of edge holding (even the cheap ones will blow you away with sharpness and edgeholding). They are hooped and designed to be hit with a hammer. The only issues are that you need to set up the hoops (takes a few minutes at most), and that they are not a levering blade (they are chopping and paring blades).

Makes? Not sure what you can get or where - off the top if my head ... Iyoroi. I have used the basic bench chisel for more than 15 years chopping into hardwoods and yet to chip one.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Bill Houghton]

Not a direct answer to your question, but Stanley's older No. 60 butt chisels - with the yaller plastic handles and the metal striking cap - are the best field chisels I've found yet. The steel is amazingly tough, and will hold an edge a long time. They can be found at many yard and estate sales. In this area, they tend to go for $1 or so. I wouldn't use anything else for carpentry. I can go from making/trimming a hinge mortise to levering out great big chunks of wood, and they can do the whole range. And you can bash them with a hammer all day long.

[Stanley Covington]

It is well established that the better Japanese chisels have superior edge-retention capability. And the steel hoop and ferrule make them very sturdy.

For FINISH work on doors (I have had a lot of experience fabricating and installing expensive custom doors) a 12oz steel hammer will work fine to motivate a Japanese wooden handled chisel, assuming it has a properly set-up hoop and ferrule. 12oz is heavier than necessary for finish work, but not unusual at all. I certainly understand your desire to not switch out a hammer you are accustomed to using.

But if you need to cut deep mortises with fast and heavy strokes, however, a domed-face 12oz claw hammer is less than ideal.

If you must use a claw hammer on a wooden handled chisel, I strongly recommend grinding the face of the hammer flat, assuming it has a typical domed striking face. This alone will help a lot to extend the life of the wooden handle.

If you won't grind the hammer's face flat, a properly setup hoop and ferrule become even more important.

You might want to consider using the larger tataki chisels instead of the smaller, handier, but weaker oire chisels. Being heavier and having larger diameter and longer chisels, they will take a lot more abuse, especially from a domed-face steel claw hammer.

Guys with large hands often prefer the tataki over the oire chisels for everything.

Stan

[Bruce Haugen]

Michael, if I were in your shoes, hammer in hand, I would likely want a vintage Stanley no. 60 butt chisel, with metal caps and plastic handles. That's what i used when I built houses. Unfortunately, they're no longer available new, so then I'd recommend the Lee Valley butt chisels. The shorter length helps a lot.

[Tom M King]

I've been a carpenter for 43 years. For about the past 7 or 8, I've been using one of these on chisels:http://www.amazon.com/Wood-Good-170-.../dp/B000CER0PC My favorite carpenter's chisels were the Stanley no. 40's-black plastic handle with metal cap, but I wish I had back all the ones I've destroyed with a hammer.

[Nicholas Lawrence]

Stanley still makes something like the No. 60s a lot of people have mentioned.

http://www.stanleytools.com/en-us/pr...-chisel/16-978

[Derek Cohen]

I have a few of the Stanley #60 chisels in a drawer. They get hauled out when I need a chisel for rough work. Mine were purchased new and are now a few decades old, at least. I am not sure if they are the same steel as the current equivalent Fat Max. To be frank, the #60 ain't that crash hot. They do not hold an edge that long, although they can take some abuse (which is why I still have them). I doubt that I would want them to be my work chisels. I know Iyoroi would run rings around them.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Mike Holbrook]

Stan gave you the straight skinny on the Japanese chisels, which is what I prefer to use. Were you to try a Japanese gennou/hammer you might find a tool you would like even better than your 12oz old friend.

If you do not want to go the Japanese tool route there are some options. Lee Valley has chisels made for them in Japan from good carbon steel. These chisels have butyrate compound handles, similar to the Stanley 60's I believe, that are suppose to be nearly indestructible. They make both butt chisels and classic bevel edge chisels with these handles. Another option is Barr Specialty Tools. Barr forges chisels designed to be struck. They make a variety of socket chisels with hard wood handles and steel rings to protect the ends, but at the price of these chisels you might just go for the Japanese chisel option.

[lowell holmes]

Uh........................
Why don't you buy an inexpensive wooden mallet?

There's no reason to hit chisels with a 16 oz framing hammer. If you insist, any steal capped chisel from the borg will do.

[Michael Pyron]

thanks for all the responses and information...

as far as the mallet concept: again, I know my hammer...been using it for over 20 years...when I'm doing chisel work I'm looking at the wood and 'knowing' I'm going to hit the chisel properly with my hammer without looking...said 'knowledge' being based upon a 20 year relationship with the impact generator (when a military contractor uses that term, they can charge $500)...not sure about the concept of 12 oz. being heavy, IIRC that was the lightest one Hart made back then, well I do have some memory of them releasing a 9 oz. Tim Allen version later...either way, people in general rib me about using such a light hammer...go figure...

I was wondering about the hoops on the ends of some chisels I've been viewing, thanks for the clarification...I had suspected as much, but was unsure...sounds like the path I will follow.

I used to use Stanley chisels back in the day, and agree they are about the same as Bucks are today...decent, but not quality...and yeah, I'm highly aware that you pay for such quality...as noted, I'm at a point in time where I desire something that holds an edge a bit longer...sometimes with a lot of chisel work being required in a day I find myself struggling to get quality cuts towards the end, and when making cross grain mortises on faces of doors this is really not a good situation.

really it's also about free time also...I have better things to do than spend oodles of off work time sharpening...I just splurged and got a Work Sharp 3000 and while it was a PITA to get properly set up, it offers repeatable results and is far better than my old ways of using a Veritas jig and starting out with 80-120 grit paper stuck to a granite plate and then working to stones for honing...

the Lee Valley line looks promising, but considering the price I wonder just how hard the steel is...made in Japan?, eh...

again, thanks for all the replies and education...after 30 years of work I'm finally getting to the concept of the quality of a chisel as opposed to just using one!