My Table May Have Permanently Proud Breadboards. What Should I Do?

[Anthony Brown]

Hi,

I have a kitchen table that I completed building in October of 2015. It is 6 ft long, made of 8/4 Hickory, and was stained and then finished with 6 coats of Satin Arm-R-Seal. I decided to go with the breadboard look because I think it just looks so much nicer than using strictly 6 ft long pieces of wood. When I was building the table (in September/October) I let it sit in my garage for a few weeks as I worked on the table slowly during that time. When I finally got all of my final cuts completed, the breadboards were perfectly even with the rest of the table like you would expect, they were neither proud nor shy. A short time after finishing the table and then moving it into my kitchen (about a month or so), I noticed that the breadboards had expanded about 1/4" on each side and become proud.

I figured that with the cold weather/moisture changes starting to occur that this was no big deal and that the breadboards would eventually shrink back once the seasons changed. I know here in Michigan, door jambs expand and get tighter in the Winter and then shrink when it gets warm, but from what I hear, that seems to be the opposite of what most other states experience. Either way, it is almost June and my breadboards do not seem to have moved one bit, they are still about 1/4" proud on each side, and I am not sure what to do. I was going to give it a bit more time before possibly taking action, to see what they do over the Summer, but I have a feeling they aren't going to move at all.

So this brings me to my dilemma. I'd really prefer that the breadboards were perfectly even with the table most of the time rather than being permanently proud or shy, as the permanent "proudness" kinda bugs me. I am considering either trying to sand or somehow saw off the 1/4" of "proudness" if the breadboards don't move at all over the Summer, but I'd like to get you guys opinions on what to do first.

Should I just leave the breadboards as-is permanently if they don't shrink, or should I maybe try remove that excess 1/4" if they don't shrink over the Summer?

Any help/advice given is very much appreciated!

[pat warner]

Top is changing in width, not the x-grain ends in length.
And they will forever be a different length than the top width.
No way out.

[Jordan Lane]

when you say proud? are we talking in length or thickness? sticking out the sides or above the table top?

[John TenEyck]

Your understanding seems backwards to me. Wood expands as the RH increases, and shrinks when the RH goes down. Wood expands/contracts only across the grain; very little with the grain. If you breadboards are proud of the field of the table top it means the field shrank, the breadboards didn't grow in length. That is completely normal in the Winter because the RH in your house was likely a lot lower than in your shop when you built it in October. Doors swell in the Summer and shrink in the Winter for the same reason, and I'm sure Michigan is no exception to that behavior.

If the breadboards were flush with the field of the top when you built it then they will be flush again when the RH gets back to the same average value for several weeks. If your house has central AC, however, it may never get back to that value. The problem with breadboard ends on solid wood tops is that they are flush with the field only twice a year if the RH swings much. That's just the way it is, nothing you can do about it.

I would let the top go for another year and see if the breadboards remain proud all the time. If they do it means your wood had a much higher MC when you built it than the average MC inside your house. At that point, you can cut the breadboards flush with the field of the top when the RH is at about the mid range of your yearly swing.

John

[Anthony Brown]

when you say proud? are we talking in length or thickness? sticking out the sides or above the table top?

I apologize for that. Sticking out the sides. So the breadboards are 1/4" longer/wider than the total width of the table on each side.

[Anthony Brown]

Your understanding seems backwards to me. Wood expands as the RH increases, and shrinks when the RH goes down. Wood expands/contracts only across the grain; very little with the grain. If you breadboards are proud of the field of the table top it means the field shrank, the breadboards didn't grow in length. That is completely normal in the Winter because the RH in your house was likely a lot lower than in your shop when you built it in October. Doors swell in the Summer and shrink in the Winter for the same reason, and I'm sure Michigan is no exception to that behavior.

If the breadboards were flush with the field of the top when you built it then they will be flush again when the RH gets back to the same average value for several weeks. If your house has central AC, however, it may never get back to that value. The problem with breadboard ends on solid wood tops is that they are flush with the field only twice a year if the RH swings much. That's just the way it is, nothing you can do about it.

I would let the top go for another year and see if the breadboards remain proud all the time. If they do it means your wood had a much higher MC when you built it than the average MC inside your house. At that point, you can cut the breadboards flush with the field of the top when the RH is at about the mid range of your yearly swing.

John

Thanks for the info, yeah I apologize about confusing the with vs. across grain shrinkage. People always say the same thing about the doors, but I guarantee I have ALWAYS had my doors swell in the Winter time. it just happened this past Winter and now that it's warming up, I can close the doors just fine. I have even done a quick search and it seems others have experienced this as well: (http://physics.stackexchange.com/que...-in-the-winter https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...6235215AAo5DtK).

Yeah, I do have central air, and that is one of the reasons that I figured that the wood would never shrink back to the original size that I cut it at. As you said though, I will give it some more time to see what happens and then go from there. I am kind of a perfectionist, so I think it will bug me until I see the breadboards flush at least ONCE, lol. Then again, who knows, I may just stop caring about it after a while...I doubt it though.

[Andrew Hughes]

Oh I say be proud of your work Mother Nature did what she does.
Perfection is the enemy of Execellace.

Aj

[Anthony Brown]

Oh I say be proud of your work Mother Nature did what she does.
Perfection is the enemy of Execellace.

Aj

Yeah, I know. It really is a legit issue with me. I am a perfectionist and it can be a blessing and a curse sometimes, lol. You are right, for as much as I went through to build this darn thing, i should just be happy it's standing at this point, but the perfectionist in me won't let that 1/4" go...

[John TenEyck]

Thanks for the info, yeah I apologize about confusing the with vs. across grain shrinkage. People always say the same thing about the doors, but I guarantee I have ALWAYS had my doors swell in the Winter time. it just happened this past Winter and now that it's warming up, I can close the doors just fine. I have even done a quick search and it seems others have experienced this as well: (http://physics.stackexchange.com/que...-in-the-winter https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...6235215AAo5DtK).

Yeah, I do have central air, and that is one of the reasons that I figured that the wood would never shrink back to the original size that I cut it at. As you said though, I will give it some more time to see what happens and then go from there. I am kind of a perfectionist, so I think it will bug me until I see the breadboards flush at least ONCE, lol. Then again, who knows, I may just stop caring about it after a while...I doubt it though.

Hey, just because you read something on the internet, including what you are reading now, doesn't make it true. If you read down a a couple of responses on that first link you'll see a more likely explanation was that the frame of the door shrank rather than the door expanded. Wood expands when it takes on moisture from increased RH (or direct wetting), shrinks when it looses moisture at lower RH. Just accept that as the fact that it is. The breadboard ends will be flush with the field of the top if the top expands enough when it sees higher RH. The breadboards aren't going to shrink.

John

[Lee Schierer]

I built a dresser for my DIL when they lived in Massachusetts with a end board border. The back edges were perfectly aligned when it was made and had slight changes while they were in Mass. Then they moved to Tucson, Arizona and the field shrunk more than 1/4" and stayed that way while they lived there. After moving to central New York, the top came back to its original width and the ends match up pretty well.

[John TenEyck]

OK, I have an explanation of how your doors could stick in the Winter and fit OK in the Summer. It could happen IF the RH in your house is higher in the Winter than in the Summer AND the doors were fit to their frames in the Summer, AND the doors were well acclimated to your house before they were fit. Really, really long shot.

John

[Anthony Brown]

Thanks guys. Sounds like I need to just wait and see what this thing does before making any permanent decisions. It's gonna be tough, but the last thing I want to do is go chopping these breadboards down only for the table to change on me again because I didn't give it enough time.

[John Broomall]

A customer called me last August to complain that the top on his 72"x40" inch pine farm table was protruding beyond the breadboard ends. According to my shrinkage and expansion tables the top was exactly right having expanded to 40 1/4 over the width but the customer was unhappy. After going over the way these ends work (again) he said he could live with it if the breadboards protruded beyond the top but not the top beyond the breadboard. Since it was late August my decision was pretty easy. I took a track saw and cut both sides flush and then recut the edge roundover all the way around. Since I had done the original finish (Transtint and Enduro) it was no problem to match. I had anticipated problems with the Enduro since I didn't want to respray but I wiped it on the edge and it went very well. Customer is happy.

[Dan Hahr]

If you use breadboard ends, perfectly flush is not the correct way to make them unless you know you are working with wood that is not dry. They are designed to be a bit proud to account for movement either way. It sounds like your wood had a much higher moisture content when it was made.

My suggestion: watch it over the course of the next year. If it doesn't move much, you could plane the ends back an eighth or so. If you cut them flush now, you will really be upset when the humidity runs high.

Dan

[Anthony Brown]

A customer called me last August to complain that the top on his 72"x40" inch pine farm table was protruding beyond the breadboard ends. According to my shrinkage and expansion tables the top was exactly right having expanded to 40 1/4 over the width but the customer was unhappy. After going over the way these ends work (again) he said he could live with it if the breadboards protruded beyond the top but not the top beyond the breadboard. Since it was late August my decision was pretty easy. I took a track saw and cut both sides flush and then recut the edge roundover all the way around. Since I had done the original finish (Transtint and Enduro) it was no problem to match. I had anticipated problems with the Enduro since I didn't want to respray but I wiped it on the edge and it went very well. Customer is happy.

If you use breadboard ends, perfectly flush is not the correct way to make them unless you know you are working with wood that is not dry. They are designed to be a bit proud to account for movement either way. It sounds like your wood had a much higher moisture content when it was made.

My suggestion: watch it over the course of the next year. If it doesn't move much, you could plane the ends back an eighth or so. If you cut them flush now, you will really be upset when the humidity runs high.

Dan

Thanks guys. That's why I come to the experts here for advice. I knew there would be some shrinkage and expansion, I just was getting a bit worried because I have seen the shrinkage, but no expansion (yet). As you guys said, I will just give it some time before I do anything crazy that I may regret. I put too much work into this thing to make a rush decision and flub the whole table up now.