Poplar Bed Build

[Frederick Skelly]

If you prefer dye, trans-tint works well. If you want to stain and have trouble with adding color then gel stain is your friend. I like to use (by the way, I'm no expert in finishing but I do well enough) an oil first to enhance the figure (Danish oil works well for this), then a sanding sealer and finally the gel stain followed by shellac (or more sanding sealer if you're so inclined).

Project is looking good - can't wait to see the rest.

Looks great Mike!

If you decide to use dye on poplar, be careful. I was inexperienced and got a lot of blotching on a poplar end table last year (transtint in distilled water). I finally evened it out, but doing so made it so dark that I buried the figure.

Next time, I'd like to try John's second suggestion/method - danish oil, sealer, gel stain, shellac. I think I could make that work. Maybe you can too.

Fred

[Mike Allen1010]

Thanks a lot John and Fred for the finishing advice. Fred your scenario is exactly what I'm afraid of.

I know I could go with John's suggestion: "I like to use an oil first to enhance the figure (Danish oil works well for this), then a sanding sealer and finally the gel stain followed by shellac (or more sanding sealer if you're so inclined). I believe this would eliminate the blotching concerns, but challenge with stain is I seem to struggle with spreading the pigment evenly. Maybe t hat's just me

I also like Danish oil first to highlight the figuire; I'm wondering if I can if I can still dye after Danish oil? If yes, does the sanding sealer go on before or after the dye? In other words is it A or B below?

A) Oil, dye, sanding sealer, surface finish

B) Oil, sanding sealer, dye, surface finish (I'm wondering the dye would penetrate the sanding sealer?)


For surface finish I'm thinking probably varnish or Lacquer because I want something more durable than shellac, which is my preferred finish for most stuff that doesn't get a lot of wear and tear.

Thanks again for the help! All suggestions much appreciated.

Best,Mike

[John Kananis]

I would go a different route actually. Dye first, then oil. Sanding sealer is going to be used sparingly at first (diluted with some alcohol) on endgrain (just enough to keep the color even). Then, I'd give it a regular coat of sealer after the oil.

Don't be afraid of gel stain, really. If you follow the original process it will look very even. Definitely try it out on some scrap first - you'll get an idea what it will look like when done and gain a tiny bit of experience for confidence. A single small plank won't take long to experiment on.

EDIT: Ensure the dye has dried before adding the oil or you'll seal water into your project.

[Jerry Olexa]

Very nice work...Thanks for the pics.

[Stew Denton]

Mike, I am no expert on finishing either, but do have a couple of thoughts.

I definitely like the Danish Oil option, I use it on fir projects that I care about. It helps bring out the grain and even the grain. Fir will never be curly maple, but I have built projects out of it because of the relatively low cost, and I think the Danish Oil gives the fir a very nice appearance. It brings out the grain, but at the same time prevents the "in your face" appearance that you often get on untreated fir that has been given a medium to somewhat dark stain.

If you go with stain or dye, I think poplar may be a little like white pine, in that the stuff will really sop up the stain, I don't know if uneven absorbance of the stain at the growth rings will make for a blotchy job that shows too much contrast, but the Danish Oil first, sometimes followed with some sort of sealer thinned way down, like 10% urethane in 90% paint thinner, THINLY brushed on will help even out how the lumber takes the stain, and cut down on the blotchiness. One thing on this, let the Danish Oil have a lot of time to cure, but remember that it actually soaks down into the wood. I say this, because the thinned finish will potentially strip out some of the Danish oil. That grain in your poplar is beautiful. The Danish Oil will help bring that out, and make it even more beautiful.

The thinned urethane (or some other type of finish) helps because you are blocking, to an extent, how much faster the soft part of the growth rings absorb the stain as opposed to the harder part of the growth rings, so you get a much less striking contrast. The thinned urethane soaks into the lumber when you put it on and partially seals the lumber, of course soaking into the softer part of the growth rings more than the harder parts. That "absorbed and cured" thinned urethane partially blocks how fast the softer parts of the wood will soak up the stain, thus partially blocking the softer parts of the grain from disproportionally getting drastically darker than the harder parts of the grain, because more of it will be in the softer parts to help seal them more. You don't want to use un-thinned finish, because the idea is just to get partial blockage of the absorption of the stain, not total blockage.

What ever you decide to try, with regards to finish, try it on some scraps FIRST, a scrap big enough to see what it will look like, such as a 1X4 a foot long. If you don't like the first try, plane it off the scrap, and try another approach. I can absolutely tell you that this approach is easier to fix than fouling up the piece itself and having to fix and start over. Now how would I know that?

Stew

[Mike Allen1010]

Mike, I am no expert on finishing either, but do have a couple of thoughts.

I definitely like the Danish Oil option, I use it on fir projects that I care about. It helps bring out the grain and even the grain. Fir will never be curly maple, but I have built projects out of it because of the relatively low cost, and I think the Danish Oil gives the fir a very nice appearance. It brings out the grain, but at the same time prevents the "in your face" appearance that you often get on untreated fir that has been given a medium to somewhat dark stain.

If you go with stain or dye, I think poplar may be a little like white pine, in that the stuff will really sop up the stain, I don't know if uneven absorbance of the stain at the growth rings will make for a blotchy job that shows too much contrast, but the Danish Oil first, sometimes followed with some sort of sealer thinned way down, like 10% urethane in 90% paint thinner, THINLY brushed on will help even out how the lumber takes the stain, and cut down on the blotchiness. One thing on this, let the Danish Oil have a lot of time to cure, but remember that it actually soaks down into the wood. I say this, because the thinned finish will potentially strip out some of the Danish oil. That grain in your poplar is beautiful. The Danish Oil will help bring that out, and make it even more beautiful.

The thinned urethane (or some other type of finish) helps because you are blocking, to an extent, how much faster the soft part of the growth rings absorb the stain as opposed to the harder part of the growth rings, so you get a much less striking contrast. The thinned urethane soaks into the lumber when you put it on and partially seals the lumber, of course soaking into the softer part of the growth rings more than the harder parts. That "absorbed and cured" thinned urethane partially blocks how fast the softer parts of the wood will soak up the stain, thus partially blocking the softer parts of the grain from disproportionally getting drastically darker than the harder parts of the grain, because more of it will be in the softer parts to help seal them more. You don't want to use un-thinned finish, because the idea is just to get partial blockage of the absorption of the stain, not total blockage.

What ever you decide to try, with regards to finish, try it on some scraps FIRST, a scrap big enough to see what it will look like, such as a 1X4 a foot long. If you don't like the first try, plane it off the scrap, and try another approach. I can absolutely tell you that this approach is easier to fix than fouling up the piece itself and having to fix and start over. Now how would I know that?

Stew

Thanks Stew, I appreciate the advice and the explanation – makes a lot of sense. I just finished the headboard. Once I finish the side rails I will have no choice but to quit pussyfooting around and make some kind of decision about finishing and move forward. Your suggestion about using large enough sample pieces for testing finishes is excellent. I've certainly tested finishes on pieces in the past that were too small to get any real idea of what the finish would look like on the actual project.

Building the bed without first having the mattress that supposed to fit into it goes against one my basic rules. I wish I could say that I "can imagine" how much it would suck to assemble finished bed and find out the mattress doesn't fit, but regrettably I know exactly how that feels.

Hopefully I'll be done here in the next week or so. If I don't post again it means either the finish was a train wreck, and/or the mattress didn't fit. I will post updates. Wish me luck.

All the best, Mike

[John Kananis]

Mike, seriously, since you have some time before the project is complete, try the second method I mentioned on a decent sized piece of scrap - you'll feel like a finishing champion! Poplar is sometimes a bit in the PITA when finishing but... gel stain is your friend. :-)

Edit: If you get really motivated (think you will after you see results), use a little finishing wax over top of the whole thing and well...

[Gary Focht]

This stuff works really well to prevent botching with dyes or stain. Definitely need to use it with the poplar.

http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/

[Chuck Nickerson]

Great process.
I love build threads.
I really love build threads that start with a photo of the raw lumber.
I'm over the moon for build threads that use an obscure tool I use as well (the 5ppi crosscut saw).

[Mike Allen1010]

Mike, seriously, since you have some time before the project is complete, try the second method I mentioned on a decent sized piece of scrap - you'll feel like a finishing champion! Poplar is sometimes a bit in the PITA when finishing but... gel stain is your friend. :-)

Edit: If you get really motivated (think you will after you see results), use a little finishing wax over top of the whole thing and well...

John, you had me at "feel like a finishing champion". The Watco oil\varnish has been on for a couple days and I just rreturned from Rockler with sanding sealer and 3 colors of oil based gel wipe on stains. Once I have color approval from the Boss, it's onward into the fray . M

mostly just want the finishing done. When it's my standard oil, ,shellac finish it's fun to see the transformation that comes w/ the added depth and gloss. But when I have to add color, like on this project, that's when things go down hill.