Best Sharpening Method

[george wilson]

Be quiet,Tom! I wanted everyone to think it was MY idea!

By the way,what is this about an inept French policeman being such a good woodworker?

[lowell holmes]

[QUOTE=george wilson;2574035]Actually,I. . . . . . . . .(and,I AM 75), [quote]

George, you may be the most knowledgeable but you're not the oldest dog in the house

[george wilson]

Probably not. But,the longer I live,it seems like I am the oldest person where ever I go!

[Patrick Chase]

I don't like the idea of having to rely on sandpaper discs that may or may not be available in the future.

It accepts standard 8" PSA discs as made and sold by everybody under the Sun. I've run standard AlOx and diamond discs straight out of the 3M catalog on mine when I was in an experimental phase. You have to cut/punch a hole in the center if there isn't one already, but that's the extent of the customization. It also accepts the very same 8" diamond lapping plates that you have advocated in the past, which are mostly what I use now.

Plus,I think they might be much more expensive than just using a regular bench grinder's grinding wheels. Mostly the latter. You buy a grinding wheel. You get INCHES of pure abrasive material. How much abrasive do you get with those little discs? Maybe HALF a MILLIMETER of thickness? LESS?

This is a problem with all sand paper/belts/discs. As you say, the economics of solid media are very hard to beat, particularly in the finer grits. The economics change with long-wearing abrasives like diamond and CBN though.

[Patrick Chase]

I do not go along with what CS does. It could put a valley or two in the blade as it contends with the edge of the disk. My method is to simply work the blade on both sides of the disk. The right side is pushing the grit into the blade and the left side pulls from the blade.

When I worry about that at all (seldom) I just tilt the blade a teeny bit away from the edge of the wheel when I set it up in the holder. It doesn't take many tries to get a feel for how much is required, and after that it's a 2-second process. I don't like grinding with the abrasive moving "away" from the tool holder, which is why I don't use both sides. I also agree that grinding off the edge isn't a desirable solution.

[george wilson]

The diamond discs I have mentioned,and gotten some of from China are 6". They are lapidary discs.

There is nothing wrong with using a disc in the "going away" direction. Once in a while I reverse direction on my carbide grinder on HSS lathe tools,to wipe off any burrs.

[Patrick Chase]

The diamond discs I have mentioned,and gotten some of from China are 6". They are lapidary discs.

You can use 6" discs on the Veritas, too (I've done it). The 8" diamond lapidary discs end up being more cost effective though, at last for the ones I've looked at.

There is nothing wrong with using a disc in the "going away" direction. Once in a while I reverse direction on my carbide grinder on HSS lathe tools,to wipe off any burrs.

Yeah, that's why I said "don't like" grinding in the going away direction. I know it's fine, I just prefer not to do it.

[paul cottingham]

I happen to have the MKII and love it. All I am saying is that I was shocked how easily this straightforward task becomes over time with practice. It's hard to express enthusiasm for a method without implying that others *should* try it.

I had a MKII for a couple years and hated it. Probably the only veritas tool I have ever owned that I had a visceral dislike of no matter how much I tried, and believe me, I tried very, very hard to get along with the damn thing. No matter what I tried, it either ground unevenly, or burned part of the blade, or the paper peeled....I can go on.

i now use a Viel belt grinder as a grinder, with a 10,000 grit Japanese stone and a leather strop. If I move the blade through the air too quickly after sharpening, I can hear the pop of atoms splitting as the edge of my blade shears them in 'twain.

That's sharp, baby.

[Steve Voigt]

By the way,what is this about an inept French policeman being such a good woodworker?

Best line in the whole thread, George!

"That's a priceless Steinway!"

"Not any more."

[Patrick Chase]

Best line in the whole thread, George!

"That's a priceless Steinway!"

"Not any more."

Yeah, that was good. I tried to come up with some retort about "robbing Peter to pay Paul" (Sellers/Sellars) but just couldn't make it work.

How about "Chance the Woodworker"?

EDIT: Added (improved, HD) link for kicks.

[ken hatch]

Quality polishing Arks aren't cheap at all. See for example the Norton translucent stone at TFWW (I think this is the one Larry Williams famously uses and flattens) and the corresponding Dan's translucent and black/x-fine stones.

I think that oilstones get a bad rap for a few reasons:

1. I think Joel Moskowitz is right when he points out that there are a lot of cheap, crappy Arks on the market, and those have tarnished the entire category. Waterstones still have a certain amount of "high end cachet", arks don't.

2. The synthetic oilstones currently on the market (Indias etc) are not in the same league as quality synthetic waterstones in terms of speed/scratch-pattern tradeoff, and people don't realize that good natural arks are in the same price class as the aforementioned waterstones and are therefore a more appropriate basis for comparison.

3. IMO the best waterstones really do deliver a better speed/scratch-pattern than the best Arks, particularly on "exotic" steels, though the Arks are more convenient for a lot of uses. I say that as somebody who owns a Norton hard/translucent Ark and has used the equivalent Dan's stone. The waterstones aren't anywhere near as far ahead as most people seem to think, though.

Patrick,

If you apple to apple....natural stone to natural stone the best Ark stone is amazingly cheap. Not that any of the following drivel is new.....

Man made stones are a commodity, there is not a finite supply so the price tends to be lower but that said, I'm amazed at some of the prices of synthetic water stones.

On the other hand it is the reverse with natural stones, supply is limited and price can greatly reflect that fact. That is one of the reasons I say paying $170 USD for the finest grade natural oil stone is a bargain. You should take a look at Jnats to see what the price of the finest Hard Ark should be in a rational world.

If I were not older than dirt, I'd be buying all the good Ark stones I could get my hands on and once I had a ton (sorry I can't help myself) I'd slip a note to CS hopping he would write something good about Ark stones.

ken

[Patrick Chase]

If you apple to apple....natural stone to natural stone the best Ark stone is amazingly cheap. Not that any of the following drivel is new.....

Yeah, everything is cheap compared to high-quality JNats. That's a big reason why I've resisted that particular slippery slope. As I've said elsewhere, I suspect that a raging crack habit would be more affordable and easier to kick.

Man made stones are a commodity, there is not a finite supply so the price tends to be lower but that said, I'm amazed at some of the prices of synthetic water stones.

I can understand prices up to $100 or so for fine-grit synthetic waterstones, based on the quantity/quality/grading of abrasives and the manufacturing process. I think that Shapton and Naniwa are making an awful lot of money on their respective $300 stones, though. Whether they're worth it is in the eye of the beholder. I personally don't shoot for that level of refinement, and if I did I would probably use a super-fine diamond lapping film or paste instead.

[ken hatch]

Yeah, everything is cheap compared to high-quality JNats. That's a big reason why I've resisted that particular slippery slope. As I've said elsewhere, I suspect that a raging crack habit would be more affordable and easier to kick.

Smart Move, your kids and grandkids approve

ken

[jim mills]

The big mystery for many (including me) is finding a simple & predictable way to re-grind the primary bevel, once the secondary bevel gets too big. Taking an expensive plane iron to a bench grinder scares the h*ll out of me..

[Brian Holcombe]

Jim, for western irons you can grind them on a rough stone and work the bevel with your finish stone. Often I grind off the microbevel with this approach, then reapply freehand.

Alternatively you can work full bevels and simply work them freehand.

Microbevel are of course very easy if they remain micro.

Here is a video I made doing so;

https://youtu.be/DZ8n6Xfdj1o