Best Sharpening Method

[Christopher Kurdziel]

I have tried multiple ways of sharpening my plane blades and chisels. Right now I have water stones 8000/4000 1000 and a dmt diamond plate (300 grit) that I use to flatten them and to establish bevels. I just got oil stones as well to try them, but i'm not getting as nice of a finish on the oil stones as I was on my water stones (I don't think the final oil stone is as high of a grit as my 8000 stone). My problem is that my dmt diamond plate takes forever to remove material. I think I may have messed it up by pushing to hard on it. What would everyone else recommend doing? Ditch the water stones and get a finer oil stone? Keep the water stones?

I was considering either,
getting a trend diamond plate
Replacing the DMT plate
Getting an Atoma plate

[Warren Mickley]

Welcome to the forum, Christopher. It would be helpful to know what kind of plane irons and chisels you have, what kind of water stones, and what kind of oil stones you have. Otherwise you might just get everyone's personal sharpening method with no regard for your situation.

[Christopher Kurdziel]

I have Stanley Sweetheart blades (3,4,6) and Stanley sweetheart chisels. Norton waterstones. Oilstones from sharpeningsupplies.com (their brand)

[Tom M King]

The DMT may have been dulled by flattening the 1000 grit stone. Those Norton stones were my first Waterstones. At the time, I was using 80 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper on a granite surface plate to flatten the stones. That paper did fine on the 4000 and 8000, but would quickly be used up by the 1000 grit stone. I used oil stones for a couple of decades before I ever had my hands on Waterstones. Either will do fine sharpening, but Waterstones are a lot faster.

[Lenore Epstein]

I don't know what the difference is between you and me and all the folks who love sharpening with DMT stones, but I had the same experience after trying to use one as a substitute for a grinder (which isn't practical because my shop is essentially in my living room). Now I use good-quality coarse power sander belts on a flat reference surface to 'grind' when I need to remove a lot of material, and picked up a King Deluxe 400 grit stone, which is much more dish-resistant than other Kings, for minor flattening or reshaping before moving on to my 1000/5000/8000 grit waterstones.

But a grinder is the most popular option for serious material removal, and is handy for all kinds of other tasks, so you should consider picking one up. It doesn't sound hard at all to learn to grind without torching or damaging edges, gives you the option of a hollow grind on chisels if that appeals to you, and is a lot faster than just about any stones.

EDIT: I never used my DMT for waterstones, just flattening a few chisel faces back when I was experimenting with sandpaper sharpening (I may have used too much pressure, so maybe it wasn't entirely the stone's fault).

I later bought an iWood 150 (from toolsfromjapan.com) for coarse waterstones and an Atoma 400 (on Amazon) for the 4000 & 8000. Both of them are flatter and seem to be higher quality than the DMT and the iWood showed zero wear even when I recklessly ground a chip on the same brand chisel that immediately broke down the DMT, and although Atomas are spendy, the iWood cost the same as the DMT even with shipping.

[Jim Koepke]

Howdy Christopher and welcome. I see you have been here a couple of years. If you check these pages regularly you will see sharpening is a well worked subject.

I have a Veritas Mk.II Power sharpening system:

http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/pag...35&cat=1,43072

I have used it for back flattening. I am very happy with this system. Some folks have had problems. (some things just do not work for some people.)

My shop also has two set ups for sharpening. One is oilstones, the other is water stones. It gets below freezing in my shop during the winter so oilstones let me continue working. Also some of my blades are gouges and molding plane blades where oilstones are less prone to being damaged by an errant stroke of a sharp blade.

IMO, trying to compare oilstones to water stones is futile. Some charts try by placing a black or translucent Arkansas stone equal to a 2000 water stone.

Water stones tend to have more free abrasive available. Oil stones have the hardness which will also burnish an edge while it is abrading the surface.

I have a couple more oilstones beyond the Arkansas stone. Jasper is a great hard stone for burnishing the steel after it has been honed on an Arkansas stone. This and a few strokes on a strop and there isn't enough difference between the two methods for most folks to notice.

Most folks do not bother with a jasper stone and just strop and likely get the same result. There isn't a big consensus on the best stropping medium. Many like 'green stick' stropping compound of Chromium Oxide. Others have their own preferences from a gold cream to variations on loose diamonds to diamond compounds.

I find diamond stones are rather unforgiving of heavy hands. My only use for diamond stones is an extra fine DMT in my kitchen for knives. Once or twice a year the knives are carried out to the shop for a total sharpening and mostly removing any nicks. In kitchen use my diamond stones seem to last for many years. They are used lightly but often.

For flattening the back of a blade in my shop, an adhesive backed abrasive sheet is used on a hunk of flat granite. Some folks just use water or a spray adhesive to mount a wet or dry type abrasive sheet. Mine is bought in rolls since my granite slab is 4' long. Most of the time I use a 360 grit paper but also have 80 and 220 rolls. I do not do as much of this as I have in the past.

After all is said and done the "best sharpening method" is the one that works best for you.

If you are not totally confused, you just do not understand the situation. (Edward Murrow)

jtk

[Christopher Kurdziel]

I'd prefer something that sharpens way faster.

[Mike Cherry]

I understand why you are experimenting with different sharpening methods, it seems that's a pretty normal thing for people to do. I can tell you from experience that I had everything I needed when I bought a 1k and an 8k water stone and a course diamond plate for flattening. Now Ive got diamond stones, water stones, oil stones, and grinding wheels! If you want to sharpen faster, get better at sharpening. It's that simple. You have everything you need it sounds like. I can get shaving sharp in 5-10 strokes on a course stone and maybe twice that on a fine stone. Work the burr back and forth a couple times and done.

A damaged edge edge takes more work of course. If you need to reset a bevel or grind a new angle, get a bench grinder with a CBN wheel. It takes mere minutes to grind a hollow bevel.

[Luke Dupont]

It sounds like you're pretty well set up for sharpening already.

8000 is a rather fine grit to end on, so I don't know if this will apply to you, but I've found I can get my tools much sharper by utilizing a strop with compound (chromium oxide / the green stuff). It also works great to remove any burrs left by the stones, polish out any scratches, and refine the edge. The highest I've gone with stones is 2500, though.

I've tried sandpaper, synthetic japanese waterstones, diamond stones, and a few arkansas stones now. I would say that the Arkansas stones produce a very fine edge when compared to stones of equal grit, and I like them a lot. I've been using a set of diamond stones (300, 600, and 1200) followed by a strop -- sometimes, but not usually, with 2500 grit sandpaper as an intermediate step, and I've had great results.

There is only one best method, and that's one that you've found best suits you after trying many different methods. What's best for me, won't be best for you, and I think even the best craftsmen disagree about sharpening methodology. I'm rather partial to Paul Seller's method. A lot of people would be vehemently against it, though. If you can consistently and easily produce sharp edges and get back to work, that's what's important.

[Mike Holbrook]

Hi Christopher,
I have :water stones ( King & Sigma Power), DMT Dia Flat, Two Eze-Lap diamond plates, Tormek.....Even with all that I was still frustrated in my efforts to make things sharp. I finally followed the suggestion of some other posters here and bought an inexpensive Delta grinder. I had been concerned about damaging my blades with too much heat. The beauty of a good grinding set up in my experience is it allows you to sharpen much faster for several reasons.

First grinders are just faster at removing material than most methods. Kinda makes sense when you realize the machine is moving the "stone" over the metal at a consistent and faster rate than you can by hand. The second factor is a grinder makes a slight hollow in the bevel of objects being sharpened. That hollow bevel means you do not have to remove nearly as much metal to "hone". Honing is a term many use to refer to resharpening a blade that has an established bevel, especially a hollow bevel. The other factor is the hollow forms two lines at the top and edge of the blade. Those two lines provide a very easy reference surface to rest the blade on while hand sharpening. Honing by hand is faster than trying to use a jig: less set up, less measuring, less restrictions in terms of moving the object over the sharpening surface....

With my grinding set up I am many orders of magnitude faster at sharpening. I am a huge fan of hollow grinding both BU & BD plane blades. I can hone my blades in a minuet or two vs the hours I use to spend and still not get the results I wanted. Once you have a good grinding set up you can hone with a couple very hard waterless stones, saving even more time. I finish with a simple piece of MDF and an inexpensive green buffing compound. I am a "true Believer" in the idea that sharpening should not become something that gets in the way of woodworking but a pleasant short infrequent rest that does not interrupt the flow of the work.

I would suggest looking up old posts on types of stones and CBN wheels for grinding. I use CBN wheels because they are even faster than regular stones, last basically forever and cause almost no heat. CBN wheels are more expensive but worth it to me for: the greater versatility, ease of use and permanent solution. Many have learned to get good results with better stones too though. You might think about a slower or variable speed grinder but once you learn good techniques you can work with the regular speeds without issues.

You might also check out David Weaver's YouTube woodworking channel. David has tried just about everything there is for sharpening. He has one video comparing several different media for honing, concluding that there is no practical difference between the results produced by the top methods, regardless of the cost.

Good luck and good sharpening.

[Robert Engel]

I have a very similar set up to yours. I have all the grits in DMT Duo sharp (I would NOT get mesh stones again) as well as hard/surgical Arkansas which I use for carving tools. I find the black surgical Arkansas about equal to the 8000 water stone. I have an extra fine Diasharp I bought for carving tools and often use it in place of the 1250 for narrow chisels which tend to catch on the mesh.

I now prefer the Dia Sharps over the mesh, but I think the Trend would be a stone I would buy. You're getting 2 very usable grits in one stone, plus Rob Cosman recommends them, so they must be the best, right?

I am of the opinion that using my DMT coarse mesh to flatten water stones is wearing it out. Mine is practically useless now for flattening so I wouldn't do it again.
I also feel the flattening stone from Norton is not really flat. To do over again, I think I would go with granite/sandpaper for flattening, its just not as convenient for me in the meantime I will continue to use the coarse DMT for flattening.

To be clear, "sharpening" is removing material and IME the fastest way is diamond stones. IME honing (polishing) is fastest with water stones. I finish up with brief stropping (5-6 strokes). As mentioned, only use oil stones for carving tools. I take a blade to the grinder only to re-establish a hollow bevel.

As for speed, I can be back to work with a plane in less than 3 minutes, chisels often less than 2. I'm starting with 1250 diamond (800 if overly dull) -->4K water --> 8K water --> 6-8 strokes on strop. About 1/2 the time I go straight from 1250 to 8K. Flattening backs on new blades I'm going to pop the top on a brew I know I'll be in it for at least 30 minutes.

Don't think you can get faster than that.

[Derek Cohen]

I have tried multiple ways of sharpening my plane blades and chisels. Right now I have water stones 8000/4000 1000 and a dmt diamond plate (300 grit) that I use to flatten them and to establish bevels. I just got oil stones as well to try them, but i'm not getting as nice of a finish on the oil stones as I was on my water stones (I don't think the final oil stone is as high of a grit as my 8000 stone). My problem is that my dmt diamond plate takes forever to remove material. I think I may have messed it up by pushing to hard on it. What would everyone else recommend doing? Ditch the water stones and get a finer oil stone? Keep the water stones?

I was considering either,
getting a trend diamond plate
Replacing the DMT plate
Getting an Atoma plate

Hi Christopher

Welcome to the forum.

The best sharpening equipment means little without a suitable sharpening strategy. It will help to advise you if we know what you do with your equipment. For example, do you freehand or use a honing guide? Do you hollow grind or work a flat primary bevel? Do you add a secondary bevel (a bevel at a higher angle to the primary bevel)? Do you know what a microbevel is? Do you prepare your blades with a grinder at all and, if so, what do you use?

Sharpening is hugely provocative topic on forums. Everyone has an opinion. Many will be tempted to say what works for them. It is horses for courses - what strategies have you tried? Anything working for you?

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Rob Luter]

I hollow grind with a low speed grinder, then use 3M abrasive film mounted on glass for flattening backs and honing the cutting edges. All the heavy lifting is done during the hollow grinding. I use a Veritas honing guide to keep the angles consistent. Back flattening is accomplished using a variant of the "ruler trick", so that goes fast too. It's a cheap and reliable method that works for me.

[Prashun Patel]

Due respect, before you get new equipment, I would find someone to watch you sharpen. Hone your technique with what you have. You can do it.

I am taking classes now with a Creeker (Brian Holcombe) and while his method for flattening, sharpening, and honing is slightly different from mine, he has helped me identify flaws in my own technique and evaluation of my results.

For instance, I flatten my backs on a Worksharp. But going through manual flattening with him and seeing what he defined as flat helped me to realize I wasn't careful enough in flattening. He also showed me that I wasn't appreciating the subtlety of properly flattening the cap iron. I THOUGHT I had these concepts down. But a coach helps me see flaws in my implementation that I am myopic to.

Once your technique and powers of evaluation are good, then you can evaluate which kind of stones/powered items appeal to your sense of aesthetics and efficiency.

Even as I read this thread I'm tempted to buy, buy, buy - especially since LV is having free shipping right now . Resist the temptation!

[Normand Leblanc]

Just like others have said, if I go back to the time where it was very difficult to sharpen properly, I know that the media (stones) wasn't the problem, it was me.

I kept changing technique and media without mastering any one.

Pick a media, then a proper technique for that media and then practise. You will be surprise at how easy it is once you master it.