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Thread: Elbows

  1. #16
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    This is the excersize I will start tonight and hopefully it is going be magical: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=3614

    Instead of using weights, I guess using several sizes of hammers is just as effective.

  2. #17
    I think that Japanese style planes without totes would be the worst as you have to grip the plane body which can lead to the elbow injury described. I find that with totes I can have a more relaxed grip. This being said if I have to hog a lot of material I use a scrub plane and find it pretty effortless. It is the final finishing with the smoothers where I an tighter on the plane.

    Good luck with the exercises Kees.

  3. #18
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    My only advice from a non-medial professional; when something starts to ache...take a break.
    A big +1 on this.

    A little tired or winded? Take a break and REST! Aches or pains? Take a break and REST!

    I also do something that may not work for everyone else, I switch sides. Most tools can be used either left or right handed. What is really strange is there are often times my left hand sawing is better than my right hand sawing. It may be due to my eye dominance also switching sides. My left eye doesn't have any astigmatism.

    As has also been said, keep the blade sharp and wax the sole. Dull blades and friction can add a lot of extra consumption of energy.

    Another personal observation is I can last a lot longer taking 0.003 – 0.005" shavings than when trying to take 0.015" shavings. It is less tiring and jarring to such an extent that more material can be removed, before becoming tired, by using more strokes with the blade set to remove less material.

    After a previous post about clearance angles I have been paying attention to my planing. Most of my pressing down on a large plane is done at the beginning of a full length stroke on the front of the plane to make sure it is fully registered before starting the stroke. Once the whole plane is on the piece I do not use a lot of down force. A sharp blade will stay in the cut until it comes upon a valley or has to go over a hill.

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  4. #19
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    I think that Japanese style planes without totes would be the worst as you have to grip the plane body which can lead to the elbow injury described.
    Wouldn't this be different due to the Japanese style planes being used by pulling instead of pushing?

    Though maybe Japanese woodworkers have different work related injuries.

    Samurai elbow anyone?

    jtk
    "A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

  5. #20
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    Be careful with tendonitis / tendonosis / "tennis elbow."

    The problem with tendonitis is that you generally don't notice it until you've already done the damage. Then, you'll feel better, think it's all healed up, and hurt it again without knowing. Rinse and repeat, and you have a recipe for chronic tendonitis / tendonosis. And, there's nothing to do but let it heal up for 6-12 months at that point.

    It comes from over using the tendons. I've been struggling with this for a year now. In my case, while I do feel it in my elbows when it's bad, it's more in my wrist from too much gripping. It's probably from a combination of typing, martial arts, and tool use, for me. Using tools used to really aggravate it, but with a combination of healing and adopting a looser grip (which, incidentally, has helped my sawing!), tools use doesn't tend to bother me much anymore. Find efficient ways to work. Make sure you're not gripping too hard, and if you're planing, make sure you're kind of "throwing" the plane and using momentum, rather than slowly bulldozing along. Alternatively, do definitely consider tools with different ergonomics, such as Japanese planes.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Fournier View Post
    I think that Japanese style planes without totes would be the worst as you have to grip the plane body which can lead to the elbow injury described. I find that with totes I can have a more relaxed grip. This being said if I have to hog a lot of material I use a scrub plane and find it pretty effortless. It is the final finishing with the smoothers where I an tighter on the plane.

    Good luck with the exercises Kees.
    WRT Japanese planes; you would use your lats and thighs to pull the plane.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  7. #22
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    Elbows and shoulders aren't hurting.....however, lower back usually calls a halt to things way before the other start to hurt....Spinal Stenosis Lumbar can be a bear....Makes me want to go and sit down with the heating pad for the rest of the day.

    Had one shoulder worked on, long time ago. Been fine since. Too many out there do not know how to swing a hammer, and wind up with bad elbows. Swing with the ahoulders, not at the elbow or wrist.....unless you like wearing a brace.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Holcombe View Post
    WRT Japanese planes; you would use your lats and thighs to pull the plane.
    I think that Triceps would come into play as well. It is the griping of the plane body that would lead to "the elbow" I think.

  9. #24
    When I am injured I definitely have a rest or go easier. Aches and pains almost always feel better after stretching and a good workout. Keep moving or freeze up for me.

  10. #25
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    Re: tennis elbow getting better; the surgeon told me that those ligaments that were torn loose were really not needed,and the muscle would function without it. But,I decided to get the ligaments sewn back onto the bone(they drill little holes in the bone to sew to.)

    Your mileage may vary,but,I had to do manual work,and I didn't want the risk of the torn ligaments coming back when I had to lift or move something heavy. I like to be sure of everything. I'll gamble $1.00 on the lottery.Nothing more!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Fournier View Post
    I think that Triceps would come into play as well. It is the griping of the plane body that would lead to "the elbow" I think.
    I doubt that its impossible to injure yourself with one, but Odate's book describes the grip and pull as using your one hand to pull from behind the blade and using the other to guide the body and apply slight pressure. It always appears that they're using their hand to grip the body, but they are not.

    Triceps as well at the end of the stroke.

    It should be a full body movement.

    When So Yamashita was describing the use of a Kanna to me, he said the reason behind the pull stroke was so that small stature people could use the largest muscles in their body to work the material.

    When I use it to plane a panel my body can be tired but it does not cause my hand to cramp (my hands cramp with ease if I'm using an improper grip thanks to an injury).

    I plane for hours at a time, just take a break from what you are doing and do another task to ease up on those specific muscles.
    Bumbling forward into the unknown.

  12. #27
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    Tonght I tried the excentric exercise. I didn't feel a thing in my elbows with a 1 kg hammer. So either I did it wrongly, or the elbows aren't that bad. Tomorrow I have my usual sport climbing evening, I'm going to take it very easy and listen to my body. After that durng the weekend taking up the handplaning again in small doses.

    I had the same I remember now when working on my dining table. It was pretty bad after one long planing sessions but the pain disappeared after a few days and I could continue later on.

    As always, and some of you allready mentioned it, listen to your body! Something that ain't easy for me.

    And it looks like there is a Japanese plane in my future

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Brady View Post
    I suspect that wooden planes take more of a toll on the body because they lack the mass and inertia of metal ones. My use of wooden planes is limited, admittedly, but observing those who use them well tells me that user is somewhat more involved in keeping the tool on the wood and moving forward, particularly since many wooden planes lack any kind of handle. This may sound like a bias toward metal planes on my part, which is not deliberate. Hopefully others here can speak to this point.
    If your technique is correct then most of the "mass and inertia" should be coming from your body anyway, not the plane. You should be "stacking" your joints so that they simply transmit power as efficiently and directly as possible, and driving from the hips like Derek said.

    I've had elbow and shoulder pain after planing, but it's usually been because I got sloppy and started pushing from my upper body.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Cohen View Post
    Prashun, tennis elbow are the name given when the pain occurs on the outside of the elbow, and golfer's elbow is on the inside of the elbow.

    Regards from Perth

    Derek
    Here's a page describing the Reverse Tyler's Twist for golf elbow, for those of us who don't want to watch a whole youtube video.

    http://info.thera-bandacademy.com/flexbarelbowmedial

    Kees, either you were misdiagnosed or missed something in the exercise technique if you felt nothing at all. It might be worth carefully trying it with a heavier weight, but first I suggest varying body position and grip and greatly slowing down the movement so you can tell when it hits the spot. Remember you're not looking for pain in physical therapy, just stress on whatever muscle group needs strengthening.
    Last edited by Lenore Epstein; 06-08-2016 at 5:59 PM. Reason: Left out a url

  15. #30
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    George,
    Age wisdom prevails. Believe me. I'm old.
    Bill
    On the other hand, I still have five fingers.

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